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moktira Offline OP
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So I've spent the last few hours reading up on the full story of DKS because I still could not fully understand everything. I initially began by planning to lay out my interpretation of it and then ask questions about where I didn't understand, however as I began writing I made some possible realisations, so some of this is just theory.

(My interpretation of the story)
Starting with Ygerna's execution, Damian quickly soul-forges with her so as not to lose her. Usually with soul-forging if one of the two dies, they both die. However as Ygerna must have been on her way to the Hall of Echoes something unusual happened, part of Ygerna's soul remained in Rivellon rather than being sent to the Hall of Echoes, this also meant part of Damian's soul went to the Hall of Echoes so he could not realise his full power without Ygerna.

Zandalor believes that as the soul-forging process worked differently here, if he can resurrect Ygerna then Damian's soul will go to the Hall of Echoes. However Zandalor's hypothesis is incorrect; Damian also wants this as some of his soul is with Ygerna in the Hall of Echoes so he can become complete and be reunited with her if she's resurrected. As a result he believes Zandalor wants Ygenra's soul destroyed.

It is known that Maxos --a Dragon Knight-- is the only person known to have entered the Hall of Echoes and, though he disappeared, perhaps a Dragon Knight can enter to bring Ygerna's soul back. Damian is worried that Zandalor will send a Dragon Knight to the Hall of Echoes to destroy Ygerna's soul so charms a Dragon Knight to stab the Divine. This sets in motion a series of events that almost eradicates the Dragon Knights.

As the game begins, both Damian and Zandalor seek out Talana, the last Dragon Knight; Damian to kill her to remove chance of Ygerna's soul being destroyed and Zandalor to convince her to go to the Hall of Echoes. Talana is mortally wounded by Rhode and finds an initiate Dragon Slayer. She senses that they have recently received the dragon memories but the ritual was not complete and so their mind is in disarray and able to receive the Dragon Knight powers. Talana gives the dragon abilities to the Slayer (similar to how Morgana gave them the memories), shows a vision, and then dies.

Damian was near at the time and as a result Ygerna's essense from her fractured soul. She sensed this vulnerable untrained Dragon Slayer/Knight's mind and saw an opportunity to get a Dragon Knight on her side. Damian finds the new Dragon Knight and somehow imparts some of Ygerna's essence on the Dragon Knight. Ygerna impersonates Talana and guides the Dragon Knight. Zandalor turns up and as he is under the illusion resurrecting Ygerna is the thing to do so tells the new Dragon Knight what needs to be done. This is matched by what Talana (actually Ygerna now) tells the Knight so they have no reason to suspect that this is what Damian wants.

The Dragon Knight is successful and so Ygerna is resurrected and then Zandalor is proved wrong. Ygerna then traps the Dragon Knight with the Divine as they will still be useful. In order for Damian to realise his full power it seems he needs more than just Ygerna however, he needs Behrlihn and at least one other. He goes off in search of the other and sends Ygerna after Behrlinn. Once again Ygerna manipulates the Dragon Knight, this time to restore Behrlinn. Now either Bellegar convinces the Knight otherwise or the Knight goes ahead anyway. Either way, the Dragon Knight is much more powerful than Ygerna realised and dispatches either her or both her and Behrlinn. Upon defeating them the hold over the Divine is lost and the Dragon Knight frees him.


Did I interpret this correctly or am I trying to make too much sonse of it?

Initially I did not think Damian was involved in Ygerna's scheme, even the Divine at the end of Eco Draconis says Damian "never realised you wanted to find her soul for resurrection not destruction." However the Divine got one or two other things wrong here, he also claims that Damian and Ygerna are invincible which we know is not the case as Ygerna is defeated in Flames of Vengeance. In this thread Macbeth also says that the vision is probably shown by Talana, not Ygerna as claimed by the Divine, this would make sense as Ygerna would not know how it feels to control a dragon whereas Talana would.

We also know from Divine Divinity, that while the Divine One is named that, he is still human and not omnipotent, despite his power he is still capable of error. I would say after spending years trapped in that crystal he has become embittered and cynical and that explains his mistakes. It is also unlikely that he can see everything that happens in Rivellon from that plane so I suspect Damian or Ygerna showed him some of the events that happen the Dragon Knight and he interpreted them incorrectly.

The other reason that I firmly believe Damian was involved is because of all the opportunities he had to kill the Dragon Knight. He successfully managed to eradicate the former order with the exception of this young untrained Knight. There was no reason to let them live unless he had a use for them. One thing about Damian is that he is not stupid, and leaving the Dragon Knight live while thinking that their goal was to destroy Ygerna's soul would be insanely stupid. No, he's cold and calculating, he wants to convince the Dragon Knight that this is not what he wants in order to further manipulate them in to doing it.



When I finished my most recent play-through again I felt a sort of bitter taste in my mouth (though not as bad as what I felt when I fist finished Eco Draconis), I thought it was as if the story was just you resurrect Ygerna and then kill her. And that's it, what about Damian? What about all the loose-ends and what I perceived as plot holes, but upon writing this I have become more satisfied with it:
The story is not about saving the world from destruction like the standard cliché, it's not about vanquishing the evil Damian. The story is about this Dragon Knight who saves the Divine. The Divine is believed to have been killed, the Dragon Knights are believed to be betrayers, the world is being torn apart by Damian. And then from nowhere, this Dragon Knight appears and saves the Divine. They restore hope in the war and restore the reputation of the once glorious Dragon Knights.


If there's one thing this game continually tells you it's not to believe everything you read/hear and shows how different characters interpret and perceive things. Take Rhode for example, the first character you meet in the game, she has been brought up to believe the Dragon Knights are betrayers and evil. All her mentors and friends share this belief and she joined a proud order to help remove this threat. Imagine her shock when one of them is becoming accepted and in her eyes is only making things worse and in facts makes them worse by resurrecting Ygerna. Her interpretation of the events are that the Dragon Knight is not helping and cannot be trusted and until the hero saves the Divine there is nothing to convince her otherwise.

This game is far more deep, complex and less black-and-white than I first realised. Either that or my interpretation is as blind as Rhode's. I think taking all that into account, my next play-through will be much more satisfying in terms of story.




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There was a connection made, but I don't think there were any pieces of souls left behind or drawn into the Hall of Echoes after the soul forge.

I don't think Damian was planning that far ahead when he manipulated a dragon knight into attacking the Divine. The Black Ring was winning the war until the other side formed an alliance with the dragon knights, who tipped the balance of power. Having a dragon knight attack the Divine was a convenient way to get revenge and break up the alliance.

Ygerna was able to detect and exploit the player character's mind after the unfinished slayer ritual and Talana's gift of the dragon powers.

The cutscene comments when Ygerna was resurrected state that Ygerna and Damian were working independently of each other, matching the Divine's speech when the dragon knight was imprisoned. The Divine didn't claim they would both be invincible, just Damian.

Damian couldn't kill the dragon knight. He had already asked Patriarch to open a portal to the Hall of Echoes and been refused. The only hope he had to resurrect Ygerna was to let Zandalor's plan progress that far and try to get ahead of the dragon knight at the end.

There will be a Divinity 3 to finish off the story arc with the Divine and Damian. Hopefully there will be another RPG continuing with the dragon knight, as well.

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Thanks Raze, when I was trying to figure out everything I considered just pming you and asking but I didn't want to be annoying you either. When I first joined this forum after revisiting Divine Divinity about two years ago you also gave me some story details on stuff I missed. You really have an encyclopedic knowledge of these games and this forum, it's really impressive.

Originally Posted by Raze
I don't think Damian was planning that far ahead when he manipulated a dragon knight into attacking the Divine. The Black Ring was winning the war until the other side formed an alliance with the dragon knights, who tipped the balance of power. Having a dragon knight attack the Divine was a convenient way to get revenge and break up the alliance.

Thanks, I'd forgotten that from the lore.

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Ygerna was able to detect and exploit the player character's mind after the unfinished slayer ritual and Talana's gift of the dragon powers.

Understood that but was it just a coincidence that Damian was near too then? Surely that's what allowed her to detect it?

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The cutscene comments when Ygerna was resurrected state that Ygerna and Damian were working independently of each other, matching the Divine's speech when the dragon knight was imprisoned. The Divine didn't claim they would both be invincible, just Damian.

I don't remember her saying that, to me it's hard for the whole story to make more sense if they weren't working together. Unless due to the soul forging there was some "feeling" that was sort if subconsciously guiding him but they didn't have direct contact.

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Damian couldn't kill the dragon knight. He had already asked Patriarch to open a portal to the Hall of Echoes and been refused. The only hope he had to resurrect Ygerna was to let Zandalor's plan progress that far and try to get ahead of the dragon knight at the end.

That seems very risky, allowing the Dragon Knight to live and enter the Hall of Echoes but then hope that they failed and Ygerna escaped? Seems too much to gamble. Though again, perhaps the soul forging gave them some insight here.

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There will be a Divinity 3 to finish off the story arc with the Divine and Damian. Hopefully there will be another RPG continuing with the dragon knight, as well.

I know that alright yeah, and I know originally Divinity 2 was planned to be a much larger story and even involved an RTS at the end where after you gather lots of armies you fight Damian's forces!

I need to play through this again and take note of the story in more detail then. Am I correct in thinking that in FoV Ygerna was manipulating the player to revive Behrlihn?

Out of curiosity, do you kill General Raze when you're playing or do you leave him live?

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was it just a coincidence that Damian was near too then? Surely that's what allowed her to detect it?

Damian was likely keeping tabs on Talana, since she the last dragon knight and also trying to resurrect Ygerna. Ygerna was in the Hall of Echoes searching for a mind weak enough to control but strong enough to carry out her plan, so could have discovered the main character after the ritual and been waiting for an opportunity to arise, or Talana making the character a dragon knight and dying may have attracted her. It is possible Damian's proximity may have helped, but it didn't sound like she need that when she described searching for a mind to manipulate.


I don't remember her saying that, to me it's hard for the whole story to make more sense if they weren't working together.

In the cutscene at the end of D2:ED Damian says that all that time he had been searching for a way to resurrect Ygerna, and she ended up being restored without his help. When he asked her how, she said 'I trained a pet' and said she would tell him about it later as they walked out onto the balcony of the flying fortress and the cutscene showed the Black Ring forces attacking the fjords harbour.

..\Divinity II - Developers Cut\Data\Video\Story\Endscene_English.wmv


That seems very risky, allowing the Dragon Knight to live and enter the Hall of Echoes but then hope that they failed and Ygerna escaped? Seems too much to gamble.

What alternative did he have? A slim chance is better than nothing.

Though again, perhaps the soul forging gave them some insight here.

That's possible. Or maybe Damian is just arrogant and underestimates the dragon knight (which given the scripted encounters with him, is not actually that unreasonable).


Am I correct in thinking that in FoV Ygerna was manipulating the player to revive Behrlihn?

AFAIK Ygerna was done with you once imprisoned, and Behrlihn simply took advantage of your appearance, knowing he wouldn't be able to get the Divine to free him.


Out of curiosity, do you kill General Raze when you're playing or do you leave him live?

An identity thief who wines about the cold when you can't even see your breath? I kill him.

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If she can search Rivellon for vulnerable minds from the Hall of Echoes without needing Damian's presence it makes her seem far too powerful.

I remember that cutscene now alright thanks. When I finished FoV again on Saturday and was trying to make full sense of the story that's what I initially assumed that her and Damian were not working together but then as I began trying to write down how I perceived the story that was the only way I could get it to make sense in my head. And another reason I guessed this is because when you first encounter Damian he calls you "his sleeping beauty" which made me think he was somehow also manipulating you (interestingly he also calls Ygerna "my sleeping beauty" in that cutscene). I think the Ego Draconis ending would have been better if it didn't have that scene with the Divine and just made you think you had been killed and secured Damian's victory. However because you're captured you know it's not over for your character. Still dissatisfying but more of a resolution -- I know you quite like the ending though.

Originally Posted by Raze
That seems very risky, allowing the Dragon Knight to live and enter the Hall of Echoes but then hope that they failed and Ygerna escaped? Seems too much to gamble.

What alternative did he have? A slim chance is better than nothing.

Well it seems if it didn't work and he'd lose a lot of power that he'd be better off not taking the risk, but again, I guess I can accept that he did take that massive risk.


Originally Posted by Raze
Am I correct in thinking that in FoV Ygerna was manipulating the player to revive Behrlihn?

AFAIK Ygerna was done with you once imprisoned, and Behrlihn simply took advantage of your appearance, knowing he wouldn't be able to get the Divine to free him.

If you don't side with him then Ygerna says she will infiltrate the city and free Behrlihn, I figured it was too much of a coincidence that this was her plan when she had already captured you, but perhaps he was working independently too. But if he was it just seems like a stretch that he had the power to find you and free you from this plane of existence (though he does say he seeks the last heir of Orobas). Once again he seems like he's a bit too powerful if that is the case and it also seems like a deus ex machina if he frees you independently of Ygerna. Why would Ygerna not just kill you initially rather than capture you if she doesn't plan using you again? Trapping the Divine kinds of makes sense from Damian's point of view, but Ygerna doing the same for the you and putting you next to the Divine seems pretty dumb. How could she even know that Damian put the Divine there?


So then am I correct in thinking the following:
In Ego Draconis Zandalor's plan is to resurrect Ygerna because of the odd soul forging he hoped that Damian soul might go to the Hall of Echoes?
And then in Flames of Vengeance his plan was to resurrect Behrlihn to get the Eye of the Patriarch?
Both of these were extremely risky and in turn were both bad plans. For FoV why didn't he just seek out Bellegar first? It turned out that he was able to help instead. Regarding the plan to resurrect Ygerna, Lovis also says this about the soul forging and claims that it was also Talana's quest, but she didn't seem very far along and Lovis does not seem like the most trustworthy guy. Also it's Ygerna, not Talana who tells you to seek out Lovis. But I'm tired of trying to guess who was in line with Ygerna at this point!


Thanks for taking the time to read my spiel and reply anyway Raze. For some reason my friends play Skyrim and Dragon Age but won't give this a chance so I've no one to discuss it with! While I enjoy them all I found this the most enjoyable though the story confused me. From my googling and reading of these forums I do not seem to be the only one.

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If she can search Rivellon for vulnerable minds from the Hall of Echoes without needing Damian's presence it makes her seem far too powerful.

Presumably she would only be able sense strong magic, and not have the power to do anything to a disciplined or protected mind. The dragon slayer was vulnerable from a half completed ritual, and overwhelmed with the sudden gift of being a dragon knight, and yet the limit of Ygerna's abilities was merely communication.


If you don't side with him then Ygerna says she will infiltrate the city and free Behrlihn

I didn't recall that. If she knew about his imprisonment, though, she could have let him know where to find the dragon knight and gain a powerful ally (or at least he would be powerful given time to recover).


In Ego Draconis Zandalor's plan is to resurrect Ygerna because of the odd soul forging he hoped that Damian soul might go to the Hall of Echoes?

Yes.

And then in Flames of Vengeance his plan was to resurrect Behrlihn to get the Eye of the Patriarch?

I don't think he wanted to free Behrlihn, just get the Eye of the Patriarch. It's been awhile since I played through that, though.

For FoV why didn't he just seek out Bellegar first?

Maybe Zandalor didn't think he would help? It's not like Bellegar couldn't have shown up and offered to help if he had wanted to.
Actually, I thought it was rather strange when Bellegar did offer to help. He could have saved himself, and everyone else, a lot of trouble by doing that in the first place (though that would have shortened FoV).

I guess when it comes down to it, NPCs in games may need to be powerful for plot reasons, but can not do anything to save the world before the player is able to do so.

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I've been reading this thread and it has answered a lot of my questions about the story which does seem to have some things that don't make sense. Especially the Ygerna and Talana thing. I would agree that yes, for gameplay purposes very powerful NPC's do not help 'save the world' however, logically this sometimes does not make sense. For example when Damian asked the Patriarch for help, the Patriarch could have just killed him but that would have made a very short game.

If I were him I'd want to rip Damian's head off especially after what Damian did to the Fjords & the Patriarch's home near the end of the game but I bet in Divinity 3 it will be the Divine that does this. The Patriarch may offer advice but for gameplay purposes is unable to physically get involved. The reasoning why has to be explained in the story though; e.g in Divinity 2 it's that he has a 'sit on the fence' attitude and does not really care. Human lifespans & their empires etc are just an eyeblink to him. However he does seem to take a shine to the DK and does offer help although not to the extent that he'd have to fight himself.


Last edited by Arokh; 06/05/13 12:55 PM.

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Originally Posted by Raze
For FoV why didn't he just seek out Bellegar first?

Maybe Zandalor didn't think he would help? It's not like Bellegar couldn't have shown up and offered to help if he had wanted to.

Augustus tells you at the beginning that Zandalor wants you to "contact Behrlihn and persuade him to cede you the Eye of the Patriarch", he also says this is a plan of desperation and that when Zandalor mentioned Behrlihn's name Augustus for the first time saw fear in his eyes. Sure Bellegar might not have helped but seeking him out first and telling him the options; ie. either help us or we seek Behrlihn might have been better to try initially than going straight for Behrlihn. Though I guess he didn't have much time and Behrlihn was closed being buried in Aleroth.

Originally Posted by Arokh
For example when Damian asked the Patriarch for help, the Patriarch could have just killed him but that would have made a very short game.

I guess from the Patriarch's perspective he probably doesn't really care what happens either way, he's resting for the moment and while Fjords was attacked that probably didn't disturb him. He knows by the time he emerges all the current players; Damian, the Dragon Knight, etc. will all be dead and there'll be some new incarnation of the Lord of Chaos trying to get free.
Edit: ah, you just put this in your post too!

You're both right though that very powerful NPCs are employed for plot purposes but as Arokh says, it does not always make sense. I also hope Divinity 3 explains what's going on with Maxos.

Taking Raze's points into account I think I'll rewrite what's in the spoiler in the first post and see if I can get my head around everything. Damian, Ygerna and Behrlihn all working independently seems to have too many coincidences. A full replay will be required at some point soon I think.

Last edited by moktira; 06/05/13 01:00 PM. Reason: Arokh's edit :-)
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Maxos is long dead but seems to still have an influence on anyone that enters his temple. I don't think we'd be seeing him in Divinity 3 but there may be references to him.

Maxos was the one who created the dragon knights thousands of years ago (when Dragon Commander is set) and when he was gone this passed on to the Patriarch. The Patriarch may create more of them for Divinity 3 if certain humans prove worthy enough. Info from Kickstarter updates.

Last edited by Arokh; 06/05/13 01:19 PM. Reason: Added kickstarter reference

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The dragons gave Maxos the ability to create dragon knights in the first place.

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I guess I meant what happened with him. Lovis says he's wise and wasn't interested in power but then the Patriarch says Maxos asked him for knowledge but he saw in his eyes a desire for power. Then he says he was successful as he almost always was but...and then stops. So Maxos goes to the Hall of Echoes and is never heard from again. I doubt he just died there and when you go there there's no mention of him.

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Yes, I remember reading that now, thanks; what I should have said was that it's the Patriarch who is now the only one left that can create dragon knights. It also proves he was alive at the same time as Maxos and is at least 9000 years old.


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