As stated:

http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/divinity-dragon-commander-feature/

Sounds pretty disappointing I have to say, the preview made it sound like a standard 150 apm RTS in which your dragon is a one shot power with a lamentably over-involved interface.

Also in this quote.

If you choose the undead bride, one of the options in her storyline is to transform her into a human. “A half-naked human, I notice!” I say to Larian CEO Swen Vincke, looking at some concept art of her topless human form. Swen agrees.

“Yes! It’s a game for boys… it’s not really for girls.”

I have to append "or men." When I was 14 that kind of thing would have really appealed, now? It's just tacky and makes it harder to take the game seriously.

You'd think a political simulator with dragons would be an easy sell to either gender, but apparently it was decided to shrink the potential consumer base?

I'm willing to believe that this was a spur-of-the-moment comment before the brain really realised what the mouth was saying, but it's not exactly good PR no matter how you slice it.

The tone of the article is rather negative. Fair enough; not everyone in the world will like Dragon Commander. Can't be helped.

But I'd just like to say - to give one example - that the story line of Ophelia can end in many different ways and in some of them she can become a living human woman, yes. She is indeed clad in red cloth from the waist down, though her long hair still keeps her presentation relatively modest. The idea behind this, is really not 'Boobs! Wooo!' Going against the wishes and concerns of her own kin she has become human and her body is new to her: it is something she is discovering, which is reflected in the dialogue.

It irks me - in this case because of a somewhat offhand comment - when all of this is simplified as cheap and tacky. I've put a lot, a lot of effort in these dialogs to make sure these characters feel like people, like individuals. This is not reflected in the article at all, but I sincerely hope that once people get their hands on the actual game they'll quickly realise we're shooting for an audience more mature than the 14 year old wanting a peek at an issue of Playboy. It does a lot of discredit to the work of many people at Larian to present it with that wording. I promise that's true.

Anyway, just thought I'd clarify.

P.S. And about the player-is-male-by-default issue. This is a result of the inevitable changes and challenges that befall development. Yes, in the beginning you could be male or female and marry a male or female: your choice. First we made the story lines of the princesses with the idea we could make a male version out of them, but it turned out that wouldn't really work out that well and that we'd need new story lines entirely for the princes. Because of time restraints that failed to materialise. That's really too bad, but there is really nothing more to it.

Nice find Fernando thanks,
The article didn’t seem all that bad to me, the guy just seemed a little bored, or tired maybe?

Also I disagree Rack, it sounded to me personally like the dragon was too weak, and that if you played as the dragon for more than a few seconds your entire game would be messed up…

The article sounded mostly completely normal to me. Excepting lines like "made for a certain kind of a boy". Anyway, the guy apparently didn't play very much of it (maybe 1-2 turns? He didn't even personally meet the made-human princess but saw just the concept, I understood), so it should really be taken as first impressions.

Often I prefer to play a game myself before I make a judgement on the game. From actual game footage I have seen, I say the game looks pretty amazing, and when they release beta keys (When is that, by the way?) then we can take a good look at the game and see exactly how it works. Don't put down the studio as of yet, see the work for yourself and see if the game is to your liking.

I am looking forward to the beta (which in the twitch tv stream they said "We will be giving out beta keys to everyone we can." so if you ask, its likely you can get in, don't have to be a backer.

I don't really take mainstream gaming journalism sites seriously anymore when it comes to preview\reviews. PCGamer is now different.

I'll wait and try the game for myself.

I'll try the game for myself, but honestly... it doesn't have much appeal. It incorporates a number of elements that have been done in greater depth in other games, and doesn't really bring anything new or exciting to the table. It's fairly easy to see why some people may be negatively pre-disposed toward the game, particularly when it's in a constant state of implicit comparison to Original Sin--a much more exciting title.

You know, I don't see it. Original Sin, to me, is just another RPG. A good one, sure, but hardly an exciting new concept unless you're really into co-op.

The only comparisons to Dragon Commander I can come up with are Dynasty Warriors: Empires and Total War, both series that don't have many imitators and which are both rather lacking in the role-playing-the-empire bit. Dragon Commander is not just an RTS, after all.

But perhaps there are a plethora of titles like Dragon Commander already out there and I just don't know of them.

I think we might have my wires crossed, my problem is that the dragon is de-emphasised, I was hoping it was a major part of the gameplay rather than an occasional one-shot power. Maybe the different dragons will enable this to be emphasised and even have dragon powers that limit the micromanagement of your army. We shall see.

For my money Original Sin is still more interesting because you just don't see good turn based rpgs any more. Even the good ones from the past (Fallout, Ultima) are clunky by modern standards. If Larian do this right it's something we've never seen before, Dragon Commander is also looking innovative a cross between Brutal Legend/Sacrifice/Pikmin and Starcraft 2 with a touch of Drakkhen but for my money less interesting than Original Sin.

Oh and thanks for the feedback Macbeth, I have to say the plotline and central choice of Ophelia sounds extremely strong, I'm much more worried about the artistic presentation. Good writing can go a long way to make it feel natural but I have to admit that I'm worried that no level of writing can make "I'm new to this body and haven't worked out how clothes work" seem like anything other than blatant fan-service. If you do pull it off I'll be extremely impressed.

Well, I tried and in a while you can judge for yourself!

Also, there are different types of (semi)nudity, no? 'Nude' doesn't have to equal 'smutty' at all: it can simply celebrate the beauty of the human body. It's my fond hope Ophelia's transformation will be viewed as sensual - in all its meanings - rather than sexual. That she'll be a Botticelli Venus, say, but definitely not a Playboy Bunny.

Well I'll admit I'm more eager for D-OS than DC (but this has to do with my preference for exploration over warfare - or rpg to strategy games). I very much like the total-war series though I've not played it in a while (rome total war was the one I played). I do hope there is a method to 'slow' down combat in single player as well as pause (I can see how in multiplayer this might not be appropriate ).
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The semi-nudity bit - well I think pcgamer comment was inappropriate and distracting and I hope it doesn't hurt Larian Studio (or the game sale); but that is my view. Why do I think the comment was inappropriate - it was out of context and speculative which is rather poor and bias reporting. But that's life dealing with the media.
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Oh well. Anyways I ordered DC as part of the D-OS kickstart; and maybe i will be pleasantly surprise but I don't think anyone will ever know one way or the other

As far as I know the nudity that is spoken about is based on this concept art:


I know Larian and their games long enough to know that they don't go for the cheap nudity or shocking value tricks. I think the Swen quote is ripped out of context or it was sarcasm that got lost in translation.

I'm still surprised by the "accusations" Larian gets, while their are lots of other games which go way further.

The witcher has female sexual conquests as collectible cards.

Morrigan from Dragon Age wears less than the concept art girl from Original Sin.

I don't like lizard people having boobs, but hey, it's a fantasy world, so whatever. I do however take issue with the lizard princess in D:DC looking like an Asari (which is a whole other can of worms), but I just assume she's a weird human/lizard hybrid, which does have to be possible I suppose as the whole idea behind political marriages is largely based on creating offspring.

Anyway, what the princesses wear is slightly odd, but a) it's crazy steampunk and b) they aren't fighters, so as far as I am concerned they can wear whatever they want. Female-exclusive inefficient armor exposing vital areas (or at the very least the impression thereof, c.f. D:OS) is the only thing that would be an actual problem, and a major one at that.

And regarding D:DC vs. D:OS: Yeah, I'm more excited for D:OS as it's a kind of game this probatanthrope here already knows he loves (plus droolworthy editor), but I am much more curious about D:DC as it seems to be the first game that lets you satisfyingly role-play a ruler (plus jetpacked dragon). I love the Total War, King Arthur, Europa Universalis and Crusader Kings games, but while they're better in other respects they don't quite manage to scratch that particular itch.

If I may ask, How soon is "a while?" lol.

That is indeed the concept, Merendrious.


To give a perfectly true but annoying answer: when it's done!

I'm sorry, but on my first playthrough I'll try make her a cyborg. Like every nerd I talked to about the game, that (and the jetpack) were selling points

I have no doubt at all that Dragon Commander will be the best game in existence so far. Haters are always going to hate no matter what happens. You could say something as simple as "The sky is blue" and those who want to hate are going to find a reason to hate.

'The best game in existence so far' - well, I never said that.
But I do think Divinity fans will love it!

About the gender thing: Maybe you could make an classical addon which would allow to play as a female dragon knight. I would buy it.
About the article: I and nearly everybody who is interested in gaming i know takes press lesser and lesser serious. Imho you should do at the release of DC the same thing you did at the end of the kickstarter.

That's not an "add-on". That's not even an expansion pack. That's literally an entire new game.

But yes, I think Larian could use the lessons from the Kickstarter and spend a couple of weeks between "going gold" and the release date giving Review copies to Youtube Superstars.

Especially Jesse Cox. Jesse Cox was a doubter. Make him eat his words.

To be honest of the D-OS youtubers; the only one I really enjoyed was total biscuit. I won't name the ones that I particularly disliked to avoid offending people but TB was really good !

Well, as a matter of fact, according to the Ancient Greeks, who lay the foundations for Western Civilization and therefore knew everything, the sky is actually bronze, not blue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhdH88uM8bw

Let's not go down the long, irrelevant road of going "I didn't like reviewer X, but I didn't like Y" "No, Y was terrible, Z was the best." "X rocks, Z sucks". If you're posting on the Larian forums, you're probably already a customer.

It doesn't matter in any way what we personally think of reviewer X,Y,Z, the point is that X,Y, and Z reach an audience, and even a single sale from an reviewer X watcher will balance out the cost of X's review copy.

But not together.



Mixing all those genres/subgenres together is exiting in my book.



My money is on it being too hard to put a label on it, that tends to confuse people. People don't like being confused.

Wow... It's a great pity that it couldn't have been implemented

No chance of an expansion/add-on/patch that would implement this content? Probably not. I suppose that would make the initial release seem unfinished...

Still, a shame. But it's nice to dream of what could've been

All I know is that I can't wait for July

I don't know why people compare DC to D:OS. It's like comparing apples and tomatoes.

No, they are not adding a gender swap option, probably not even in an expansion. Too bad. That can't be done for every game in existence. This game has a ton of branching, fully voice-acted dialogue for a male prince and one of 4 different female princesses. Larian isn't a huge company, they only have so many resources.

They are both called Divinity: Something Something, they're both from Larian - clearly they are both games in the same series and therefore must be similar.

It may not be the soundest train of thought, but it is an understandable one.

I agree on this!

Okay, both games take place in the Divinity Universe and both are, of course, from the Larian developers, but !

D:OS is a RPG and DC is a strategy game with a few rpg elements, but way more strategy than roleplaying.

Correct me if I'm totally wrong ...
Sometimes a "comparison" can be an annoying thing !

In regards to the bolded words I quoted above, they have distinct title:
DRAGON COMMANDER
DIVINITY: ORIGINAL SIN

If you're a buyer who has no knowledge of the divinity series, you won't think it is from a divinity series with the title alone. Unless they print it out at the back with the narrative description (I'm sure they'll do that), the buyer won't notice it. I could assume that the poster who compared both games came from Kickstarter or who have played the divinity series for a long time.

Now that I think about it, larian is doing a good job reaching out the divinity series to people who are new to it with this game. Kind of tapping a new fanbase.

It used to be called Dragon Commander, yes. And this subforum still carries the name.

The official site, on the other hand, quite clearly calls it Divinity: Dragon Commander. As does the official "What is Divinity - Dragon Commander" trailer.

It's not exactly the only series with different subgenres in the same universe. C&C did it, Warhammer 40k did it and I'm sure people can come up with more examples.

It doesn't exactly take a genius to figure out Dragon Commander isn't a RPG when looking at the official website for 5 minutes. If two different games sharing the same setting is too much to grasp for some people then ... really I don't know anymore...

Oh, and that's why people kept on comparing it. Yeah, it's understandable.



"I don't want to live in this planet anymore" - meme

"this game hates women" this seems to be the general sentiment of this article.

suddenly i start to realize why this topic popped up on this forum.
Cause this reviewer is clearly out of his mind...

In some of the videos from the D:OS campaign Larian said that they used the same engine for both games and considering they are releasing that engine it is possible that a user created mod/add-on could be made to put that feature back in. I for one am excited to get my hands on this game.

That won't work. While they ARE using the same base engine, they're explicitly said that they're using different tools to build the different games and that you can't use the Original Sin editor to make maps for Dragon Commander.

You know if he is judging by the picture its funny to me because my first impression isn't that it's sexy at all....It's just plain sad, it feels kinda tragic. It makes me want to know what happened and how to fix it.

If she keeps it like that well I can understand the idea of greek sensuality. We will have to see how well that is expressed in game, and if she has been stuck like that for hundreds of years I would find it surprising if she wasn't a bit odd and working though such a major change. And if they are trying to make her into a real character, then that needs to be addressed. She can't just turn out to be normal and give the player a quest item. She needs to continue to show character and her past as a walking undead will undoubtable be a part of that.

As for the idea they "shrink the potential consumer base" though having a target audience well the truth is a game, or any product really, succeeds when it has a strong vision of its goals. Part of this is a target audience. A focus on said audience that has made successful franchises out of these games (including the divinity series itself) and so is a reliable idea for success. Not to say other goals don't work or this one works all the time, but you need a plan to make a successful...Well...anything really.

In fact, it's more like comparing "pommes" (Apple) and "Pommes de terres" (patatoes) ... Both have "pomme" in their name, serve to feed you, but just not the same way !

I like the idea this game can bring to us, even if I don't know how it will work in multiplayer mode, the solo game can be awesome... I'm eager to test it (maybe a little bit less than D:OS, but to keep my comparison, the desert can sometimes come before the main dish".

I hope we will get beta keys to try it and help them polish it... It's a win/win idea.

Concerning nudity/sensual/sexual things, it doesn't hurt so much. I mean, it's a game for mature people AND she is your wife. Seen her as attractive is, in the role playing, normal... Isn't it?

Furthermore, I don't understand why the topic of game for mens / girls come when 40% of players are girls ... To be a Dragon prince in exil don't have to deserve girls from playing the game... It's as if we said "Boys don't play Tomb Raider games, because they can't switch gender" ... Yeah, bad idea as she was designed for fan support, but you get the idea.

Concerning the game's story, we are not a Dragon Prince in "exile" we are the bastard son of the deceased Emperor and a Dragon Knight. What starts up our war effort and puts us on the map is the patronage of Maxos, a legendary and mythical figure who is both wizard and dragon knight himself. With him and a gallery of rogues we have to fight our siblings and Aurora's forces for control of the realm. Our marriage is intended to cement our legitimacy and help us garner support for our cause.

Oh, so Bismark's MOTHER was the Dragon Knight. I guess that means our siblings won't be Dragon Knights as well (and bosses in the game).

The main character's father was a dragon knight, as are his half siblings.

Exactly, we will be facing them in combat as we would other Dragon Knights in mutilplayer - they will zip around the battlefield and we will have to deal with both them and their forces. This may be one of the more difficult fights in the game, if not the most enjoyable.

Honestly, I get the chills at the thought of becoming a kinslayer by objective. Maybe there is a more peaceful resolution? Doubtful, but worth thinking of.



No no, *we* are a Dragon Knight & a Royal Bastard. And who on earth is this Bismarck? Your avatar or our official name in the game?

I interpreted Fernando's statement as suggesting that the emperor and the Dragon Knight were separate people. Thanks for clearing it up, Raze, that's good to know. I was hoping that was the case. I am anticipating the dragon fights.

Fernando - I've spotted the name "Bismark" showing up on several screencaps. Someone from Larian confirmed that is the in-house name Larian is using for the Dragon Commander (although you can rename it to whatever you want.)

Ah, that is interesting...

No news is good news or bad news?

Larian said they were waiting until after E3 was over to start releasing news (it is still getting a fair bit of attention with 'best of' articles and updates to previous announcements).

The updates to the Larian Vault should be done Monday, so there should be a kickstarter update then, as well. If they don't mention anything specific about Dragon Commander, they may at least give a timeframe of when they plan/expect to.

I truly hope the Vault will be done by monday, but if it's another week, it's fine by me.


Well, for now we all just have to try and wait patiently. And while we are waiting, we could stock-up our game backlist over at GOG, since they are having summersale! :p

this sounds dangerous:

:p

The kickstarter function on the Vault website is currently checking a test database, so if people try linking their kickstarter/paypal email addresses I think they should just get an error that the address wasn't found or it is already linked to another account.

I just stay away from it as far as possible

What if I'm not really me ?

You would need access to the kickstarter/paypal email address used to link it to a Larian Vault account. If you are not really you when you enter your email address, the real you would get the email (which gives the name of the Vault account making the request, the verification link and instructions to click the link if you made the request or to contact Larian if you did not).

That's good to know. I'm itching for an update. At last, we'll have one on monday!

Yep, quite eager to learn more... my flamming breath is waiting ... (how classical)

Raise Forum thread!

Well, I finally got a chance to play this and judge for myself. Artistically I can sort of see where you are coming from, it's a lot less tawdry than a lot of videogame outfits. From a plot perspective though... Ophelia never wears any clothes other than that towel and it's never even mentioned in dialog. In fact she actually wears a lot more clothing when she's a skeleton. It may not be tacky fan-service but I don't see it at all as a natural progression of the plot. You might be able to read things form subtext, for example as an undead the purpose of clothing may not be to protect modesty but to identify gender at all. From that perspective clothing might seem oddly counter-intuitive for a skeleton made flesh.

While on the subject of the writing I'm in two minds, the plot threads were really interesting but they weren't given anything like enough time to develop. I'd love to see this kind of story given room to breathe but within the confines of the half dozen paragraphs of text and handful of choices it felt to me overly ambitious. Also while I like the concept of a branching narrative Ophelia came across as way too submissive as a result of it. Understandably so perhaps given her background but it was just taken as read she should be that way.

Fittingly I feel like Ophelia's story had some great bones, it just needed fleshing out more. Not better, just more. Maybe that's just greedy of me.

10 minutes in the corner for punning!