Divinity Banner
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#437731 - 02/02/11 08:37 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: Mvc9]
GabeN Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 73
 Quote:
ugh . . . here we go again, another know-it-all-muddler, i suggest some reading for next time you want to comment on something completely unrelated. are you so desperate that you want to express your scientifically-incorrect ideas in a mere game forum. you amuse me. anyway im not here to discuss religion or politics, so i wont stray off.

"Defiled" is a word "Ubisoft" uses for any of their games getting modded, if a game is modded is considered "breached" or "defiled", thus usually the DevTeam will release a tool to slightly overcome the hunger of fans . . .


Defiled in your post sounded more like "Teh game can haz pronz if you downlood it! It's defiled!"

 Quote:
Anyway, my point is, that the game itself already has LOADs of blood. like the Top Room of the phoenix inn where around 20 bodies are grusomely slaughtered with their blood all over the floor. or the concept of necromancy where you have to collect gibs to make you creature. so dont go telling me that this game has no blood or gore at all, nor that I-give-a-shit-about-the-children crap which was completely unrelated unrelated to the topic. I hope you dont represent an Atheist cause your reasoning brings them bad name . . . lets just pretend i didnt red your comment so I still can have a level of respect for atheist.


Okay, here I can agree. The game has loads of blood, but it's only in the background and "atrocities" are (almost) never done by the hero himself.

But you do kinda have a point. On the other side, such "atrocities" are in all RPG's, and I hardly remember blood spilling in, let's say, Gothic 3, which also was full of places with a lot of blood (usually caves). Blood during fight, in my opinion, depends on the heroes' innocence and graphical style. Beautiful scenery hardly fits with bloodshed.

[quote]waste money ? do you even know anything of game development ? anything about the basic game marketing ? ow . . . wait !! i think i figured it out ! you are 12 ! that must be it ! you defend children (your age), your reasoning is 12, and you havent have the slightest idea of the very game you play. even if your not 12, you think like one, so i suggest next time if they asked you just tell them your 12 (even though your not)[saying it twice for emphasis][/qoute]

I hardly see you saying any kind of specifics or solid argumentation, except "I think you are 12! Eez no game development!"

Yes, waste money. Even you should know that, programming anything in game, takes MONEY. Making bloodsplatters after kill, gore, heads falling off isn't put there by a wizard, someone has to DO IT. Add to it the fact that D2 ED was released on very tight budget... Why should Larian bother?

Besides, more gore means higher rating and higher rating means possibly less customers. If the game has too much gore, some countries (ever heard about Australia and L4D2?) may even be VERY, VERY annoying.

And stop pretending to be a game developer, I doubt anyone will fall for that.

Top
#437756 - 02/03/11 01:35 AM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: GabeN]
Kein Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 2022
Loc: Soviet Empire
 Quote:
Yes, waste money.

Larian is not a pure gamedev. 90% of their profit they getting from TV media and kids games. Divinity series is like... a hobby. They have extra money - they can do shit. The only limitation is a time itself.

======================

Hmmm... actually, I just remembered that Larian mostly do education content for kids/TV, so, I guess, that could be some kind of explanation. Old habits never die ;P

Top
#437760 - 02/03/11 02:42 AM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: Mvc9]
Libertarian Offline
addict

Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 407
I'm fine without it. It looks ridiculous in Dragon Age.
_________________________
My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.

Top
#437770 - 02/03/11 07:07 AM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: Libertarian]
Kein Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 2022
Loc: Soviet Empire
Ok, I was in hurry last two days, wasn't able to explain what I mean properly.

Let's see... the lack of blood and gore in Divinity 2 is explained by it's setting: it's a fairy tale. How much blood and gore do you see in fairy tales (well, ofc there are some crazy exceptions, but those just support the rule)? Just take a look @ Zandalor's comic clothes: starred robe, lol. The game has many similarities with Tarry Pratchett's universe.

The reasons of such setting.. well, I provided my opinion already: age rating and Larian's experience

Top
#437771 - 02/03/11 07:16 AM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: Kein]
flixerflax Offline
addict

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 679
Loc: Wandering
It's just interesting...because most everything you killed in Divine Divinity left a corpse and a puddle of blood. I tend to favor it more than not, but honestly I didn't even notice it was missing Divinity II. Kills still felt like kills.

Top
#437775 - 02/03/11 07:34 AM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: GabeN]
Mvc9 Offline
stranger

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 19
[quote]

Defiled in your post sounded more like "Teh game can haz pronz if you downlood it! It's defiled!"

Okay, here I can agree. The game has loads of blood, but it's only in the background and "atrocities" are (almost) never done by the hero himself.

But you do kinda have a point. On the other side, such "atrocities" are in all RPG's, and I hardly remember blood spilling in, let's say, Gothic 3, which also was full of places with a lot of blood (usually caves). Blood during fight, in my opinion, depends on the heroes' innocence and graphical style. Beautiful scenery hardly fits with bloodshed.[quote/]

now your starting to talk some sense, but now as I said, I was wrong.The game it self is not really that flexible, and the engine itself (raw) is not at all like that (fallout did some heavy changes on the engine to make it work). hence why the Elder Scrolls is changing the engine for skyrim.

I also agree the money issue, i cant believe i post that, i did a little google on the engine in the middle of the post so i forgot to delete that part, its quite hard to implement to this game, and as i said adding an Active blood and gore is like adding a first person feature to the game, and so thus it will need alot of money. (some games just have the tools prepared so you can do anything you want as far as the engine allows it.) so nevermind me on that one.

btw i never said i was a game developer. i said that you are not. but i think if you do a little google, you will get your answer. and also the answer as to why am i making such a request anyway. just go and google . . .

I admit that i was wrong on some accounts, I always thought that divinity 2 was made with a huge budget, but after seeing those numbers, i think its a miracle they pulled it off even this much. I really do.

now as to your comment on the fact that some countries bann those kinda games, now let me tell you how it goes, you see there is a list of items that need to be rated one by one, if a game fails to pass a certain number, then a certain country which accepts only a higher rating will refuse the game being in the country. L4D was called a pointless game of bloodshed with no real purpose, hence why some countries did not let it be released. but imagine some games like Dark Messiah, or Witcher, they had 2 versions, an American version with full blood and nudity, and a europian version with all censored. but having 2 version needs a budged Larian could not afford.

as to the character being innocent, i believe this is NOT innocence, this is just being a vegetable. like a mechanical robot, emotionless you walktrough the game doing whatever others told you (which *spolers - mostly is by a evil or super evil characters*) so i wont call that innocence. but i rather discuss this in another thread.

but in the end you should know that "THEY" wanted the blood, but could not implement it for obvious reasons you yourself pointed out. budget being the most important (or even the only main reason).
_________________________


My current projects:
+ Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines Antitribu Mod http://www.moddb.com/mods/bloodlines-antitribu
+ Untitled RPG Source game

Top
#437797 - 02/03/11 12:42 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: Mvc9]
GabeN Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 73
 Quote:
btw i never said i was a game developer. i said that you are not. but i think if you do a little google, you will get your answer. and also the answer as to why am i making such a request anyway. just go and google . . .


Eeeh?
"I know that cause I am part of a "game development team", and our marketer has shown me enough evidence on that matter to believe its authenticity."

A part of "game development team" = game developer, I think?

 Quote:
I admit that i was wrong on some accounts, I always thought that divinity 2 was made with a huge budget, but after seeing those numbers, i think its a miracle they pulled it off even this much. I really do.


I understand, it's a shame that such a great serie of RPG's is so underrated. But on the other side, such lower sales are well deserved to anyone who names a game so stupidly (Divine Divinity? Really, Larian? If I was on your place, I'd fire that BUTCHER who came out with this name! If the game had a decent name, it would have much better sales!). If someone named Mass Effect, let's say, Effective Effect or Mass Massness, or KotOR Knights of The Old Oldness, nobody would probably even know about those games. Gears of Gear, Alive-Life... These names make about as much sense as Divine Divinity.

 Quote:
now as to your comment on the fact that some countries bann those kinda games, now let me tell you how it goes, you see there is a list of items that need to be rated one by one, if a game fails to pass a certain number, then a certain country which accepts only a higher rating will refuse the game being in the country. L4D was called a pointless game of bloodshed with no real purpose, hence why some countries did not let it be released. but imagine some games like Dark Messiah, or Witcher, they had 2 versions, an American version with full blood and nudity, and a europian version with all censored. but having 2 version needs a budged Larian could not afford.


I mostly know it, but thanks anyway. ^^

 Quote:
as to the character being innocent, i believe this is NOT innocence, this is just being a vegetable. like a mechanical robot, emotionless you walktrough the game doing whatever others told you (which *spolers - mostly is by a evil or super evil characters*) so i wont call that innocence. but i rather discuss this in another thread.


I agree yet again, but the story has a nice explanation - state of the mind of main hero is weakened by that unfinished Dragon Slayer ritual.

And about innocence, well, it also depends, as I said. You can be evil too, but the game prefers you to be good or only sarcastic (doing things evil way = less experience), besides your evil has no real effect on the game.

At least FoV gives you a nice possibility to
Warning, Spoiler:
disagree with that evil ghost and choose Bellegar instead, who is by far my favourite character in the entire game. Following Bellegar is a must for me, even on my second try I will help him.


 Quote:
but in the end you should know that "THEY" wanted the blood, but could not implement it for obvious reasons you yourself pointed out. budget being the most important (or even the only main reason).


I can partially agree. We do not know really what they wanted, but we know most certainly that blood wasn't their priority - not enough to put budget into it, especially since it was barely enough to even release the game in a playable state.


Edited by GabeN (02/03/11 12:46 PM)

Top
#437799 - 02/03/11 12:51 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: GabeN]
virumor Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/14/09
Posts: 769
 Originally Posted By: GabeN

I understand, it's a shame that such a great serie of RPG's is so underrated. But on the other side, such lower sales are well deserved to anyone who names a game so stupidly (Divine Divinity? Really, Larian? If I was on your place, I'd fire that BUTCHER who came out with this name! If the game had a decent name, it would have much better sales!). If someone named Mass Effect, let's say, Effective Effect or Mass Massness, or KotOR Knights of The Old Oldness, nobody would probably even know about those games. Gears of Gear, Alive-Life... These names make about as much sense as Divine Divinity.

Larian's name for the game was "Divinity: Sword of Lies". The publisher forced them to change it to "Divine Divinity".

Top
#437804 - 02/03/11 01:07 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: virumor]
GabeN Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 73
 Originally Posted By: virumor

Larian's name for the game was "Divinity: Sword of Lies". The publisher forced them to change it to "Divine Divinity".


Good to know the butcher wasn't from Larian. Divinity:Sword of Lies is a neat title, especially compared to what we got. But, why would the publisher change name of their game to such a disgusting thing like Divine Divinity? It only decreased their sales, they lost on it! Larian was obviously cooperating with idiots and, hopefully, they aren't cooperating with them currently?.

Top
#437807 - 02/03/11 01:23 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: GabeN]
Lar_q Offline



Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 744
Long story short - contract had Divinity: The Sword of Lies in it. Publisher revised it to Divinity: The Sword of Lies (working title). The day the contract was signed, we were informed the new name was going to be Divine Divinity, courtesy of the CEO who just made tons of cash with Sudden Strike and now figured that any new title needed to have an alliteration in it, or so we were told.

We told them that was a stupid idea. They didn't like us telling them it was a stupid idea and they were also the ones checking our milestones so eventually we had to shut up, especially when inevitably we were late with a particular milestone. End of story, the person who came up with it indeed had poor taste in names and I agree that it probably cost us a lot of sales - most people thought it was a porn game.

I think it's safe to say that publisher wasn't made up of very inspired people. I learnt later that there were only a few people in the company that believed our game had any chance at success, and since they were all experts in their fields (so they told us ;\) ), I remember I was feeling very nervous at the time. Never got any word of appreciation for the game we made either. Come to think of it, the only ones who ever showed a sign of appreciation for the end result were Focus, the publisher we're working with for DKS now. That's probably to do with our attitude, but that's another story ;\)


Top
#437809 - 02/03/11 01:35 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: GabeN]
Joram Offline

veteran

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2864
Loc: Between Belgium and Rivellon ....
Maybe it is a stupid name (Divine Divinity), but if a game is so addictive and with a strong gameplay, I think not so much games make it so far like DD do :
after all the years it is published (in 2002, almost 10 years ago!!!) today new players begin to play this RPG that won many awards !!

In other words :
if a game is really good, bad title or not, a RPG gamer who read about it and discover that "it's his/her cup of tea", he/she will buy it ;\)
I never look ONLY to the title of a RPG. I look to the image (cover) and the text on the back of the cover, go looking on internet, talk to friends who talk about a game, etc ...

If only a title make sence on how much copies were sold ... hmmm ... I defenitely don't buy "Mass Effect" (I find it stupit name, even as New Vegas, ... , but that's also very subjective!)

But I can understand that a strong title can give a developer probably faster (more) money in the pocked (IF the game is also "good"!).

Just my point of view ;\)
_________________________
On 4th of july 2014 : I start my very first adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin after reading the Game Manual of great knowledge wink
So far Divinty Original Sin is absolutely beating my expectations !

Top
#437811 - 02/03/11 02:00 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: Lar_q]
GabeN Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 73
 Originally Posted By: Lar_q
Long story short - contract had Divinity: The Sword of Lies in it. Publisher revised it to Divinity: The Sword of Lies (working title). The day the contract was signed, we were informed the new name was going to be Divine Divinity, courtesy of the CEO who just made tons of cash with Sudden Strike and now figured that any new title needed to have an alliteration in it, or so we were told.

We told them that was a stupid idea. They didn't like us telling them it was a stupid idea and they were also the ones checking our milestones so eventually we had to shut up, especially when inevitably we were late with a particular milestone. End of story, the person who came up with it indeed had poor taste in names and I agree that it probably cost us a lot of sales - most people thought it was a porn game.

I think it's safe to say that publisher wasn't made up of very inspired people. I learnt later that there were only a few people in the company that believed our game had any chance at success, and since they were all experts in their fields (so they told us ;\) ), I remember I was feeling very nervous at the time. Never got any word of appreciation for the game we made either. Come to think of it, the only ones who ever showed a sign of appreciation for the end result were Focus, the publisher we're working with for DKS now. That's probably to do with our attitude, but that's another story ;\)


WoW, that's probably first time I ever see a publisher answering so fast! That's very interesting. I'm impressed! ^^

Nice to hear that Focus is better than those publishers before. You did a great job with DD and Divinity 2 (can't say the same of BD ^^) and you should be praised for your work, because you deserve it.

They thought it was a... porn game? What?

...Oh wait, the cover really did have a girl which didn't have a lot of clothes... But... Seriously?

Top
#437835 - 02/03/11 07:00 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: GabeN]
virumor Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/14/09
Posts: 769
One would think the game would've sold more if people thought it was a porn game. ;\)

Top
#437852 - 02/03/11 08:38 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: virumor]
pall Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 221
\:\) \:\)

Top
#437869 - 02/04/11 01:03 AM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: pall]
Kein Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 2022
Loc: Soviet Empire
Note that DD had "stupid" name only for most of the western (english-speaking) ppl. Here, in Russia, Divine Divinity sounds like a music for the ears :P I never paid s much attention to the title, because I more care about the content. It's awesome.

Top
#437891 - 02/04/11 09:37 AM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: Kein]
Joram Offline

veteran

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2864
Loc: Between Belgium and Rivellon ....
Fully agree with Kein ! \:\)

And to add this :
1) you see, in Russia the title Divine Divinity is not stupid for them (and also not for me!): so a "title" is SUBjective thing ! But to be honest I like also very much the title "Divinity: Sword of Lies". For me the content and screenshots + the fact that I had a wish (2004/2005) to play a real RPG made me buy DD !
2) Divine Divinity IS indeed "awesome" and imo a great masterpiece with an addictive replayability I never could imagine when I first discover DD !!


Edited by Joram (02/04/11 09:42 AM)
Edit Reason: add content I forgot
_________________________
On 4th of july 2014 : I start my very first adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin after reading the Game Manual of great knowledge wink
So far Divinty Original Sin is absolutely beating my expectations !

Top
#437910 - 02/04/11 02:09 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: Joram]
born2beagator Offline
addict

Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 412
Loc: Florida, USA
LOL, yeah, to us "Divine Divinity" just sounds weird. but as long as it is a good game, I could care less

Top
#438090 - 02/06/11 07:36 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: born2beagator]
Mvc9 Offline
stranger

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 19
yes, WE dont care about the name of the game since we are mostly adults or semi-adults, but the children, they care alot about names and junk like that, so the company practically lost all their "children" audience, even though the game was perfectly suited for them (no blood, no sexual content, and a story forcing you to be good-anyways).

maybe next time they chose something more relevant, for instance the title "Dragon Age" is more appropiated for this game than . . . um . . . dragon age itself ? since that game had dragons but never as serious as this one.
_________________________


My current projects:
+ Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines Antitribu Mod http://www.moddb.com/mods/bloodlines-antitribu
+ Untitled RPG Source game

Top
#438094 - 02/06/11 08:11 PM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: Mvc9]
GabeN Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 73
 Originally Posted By: Mvc9
yes, WE dont care about the name of the game since we are mostly adults or semi-adults, but the children, they care alot about names and junk like that, so the company practically lost all their "children" audience, even though the game was perfectly suited for them (no blood, no sexual content, and a story forcing you to be good-anyways).



I'm sorry, but you speak pure bullcrap, mate.

Name like this puts off both adults and children alike. If a game is named THIS bad, you won't touch it unless you at least heard a good thing about it.

Divine Divinity, the one with horrible title, HAD blood. After killing enemies, blood splatters appeared in most of the cases.
Sexual content? You could go to Verdistis to the bar, and even do gay sex there. Much more possibilities than in Divinity 2.
Divine One was less forced to be good than The Dragon Knight, you could randomly attack most of citizens (except ones too important for the story), do things bad way too...

Besides, you contradict yourself yet again - now you complain about losing children audience, and before you said about how majority of players are adults.

Top
#438131 - 02/07/11 09:52 AM Re: More Blood and Gore ? [Re: GabeN]
Joram Offline

veteran

Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2864
Loc: Between Belgium and Rivellon ....
I find you can't simply "generalize" it ;\)

I don't think ALL children and (semi)adults run away from a game if it have a certain kind of "title" ! Yes, there're such people who only read the title of a game and ... put it back.
But ther're also who watch screenshots, reading the content or doing both and more (I Hope!):
watching, thinking, reading, feeling, ..., and discover the game has also a Soul the dev's put in it (or not).
_________________________
On 4th of july 2014 : I start my very first adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin after reading the Game Manual of great knowledge wink
So far Divinty Original Sin is absolutely beating my expectations !

Top
Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >

Moderator:  Bvs, ForkTong, Larian_QA, Lar_q, Lynn, Macbeth, Madawg, Raze