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#455545 - 05/30/12 05:44 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: flixerflax]
Horrorscope Offline
Mercenary


Registered: 01/01/11
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: flixerflax
Well, that's all well and good, and I'd be thrilled if this game changed my mind about turn-based combat.

What I don't like is people suggesting that if it's not turn-based, then it's a mindless, shallow clickfest where you mash a single button with your eyes closed to win every battle.

There are tactics with real-time w/ active pause. Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age, Drakensang anyone? Tactics, strategy, deliberation and party management can still be a part of a game's combat without the game ripping the control out of your hands at every turn and making all the pauses for you. It wastes time, and even at best makes combat more like a separate mini-game.


The problem with pause is simply this, balance. You are more precise if you pause every move and if you don't pause you are less precise. Each person has their own taste in how much pause they use when given the choice. So the dev has to make a determination on where to set the difficulty. User pausing half the time or whatever, then balance for that. Whatever they choose you can simply make the game easier by pausing more then what they designed the game for. Always felt like a cheat to me. Then it's messy with who's turn it is and stuff like that, not as big of a deal but messy micromanaging.

Pure turn, you know exactly how the players are playing and can make proper balance decisions. You clearly know who's turn it is as well.

Knights of the Chalice was a great recent little game that reminded me how fun a turn based game is. Waiting for a homage to Wiz 8 as well. A wonderful take on first person free movement, into turned based combat.


Edited by Horrorscope (05/30/12 05:49 PM)

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#455555 - 05/30/12 10:33 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Horrorscope]
Orchestrion Offline



Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 7
Knights of the Chalice is one of the best RPGs of the last decade. Damn, makes me want to dig out Dark Sun and Wake of the Ravager. With the right cycle settings on dosbox the battle pace is adrenaline inducing (even when you have all the time you need to make each move). Perhaps an animation speed control can be added to Original Sin's options to speed things up for those who find turn based tedious for the reasons of 'having to wait a bit'? Like Wizfast for Wizardry 8.

If the balance is well tuned (which should be easier for developers given a turn based system) I also don't see turn based detracting from the urgency of combat. If anything, the fact that your warrior is at nearly zero health and seems one or two turns away from a fatal blow (and time is frozen waiting for your next move) can be even more thrilling than simply watching your avatar collapse after a few seconds and reloading. With the turn system you are able to dwell on damage inflicted, better judge your enemies midflow, even when you have never encountered the enemy before.

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#455556 - 05/31/12 12:36 AM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Orchestrion]
serutan Offline
Apprentice


Registered: 06/21/11
Posts: 38

Sounds like a good game, provided installing Steam is not a requirement, as Steam
is a deal breaker for me.
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#455593 - 05/31/12 03:21 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: serutan]
dwelfusius Offline
Druid


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 156
Loc: Belgium
wanted to share my 2cents but too lazy to rephrase the whole thing so I'm just going to copy it from my response at lar.net (sohooo lazy ^^)

Quote:
Oh my getting spoiled with all the reviews,vid,screenies..

1st of all, as stated in one of my previous posts(sorry for spamming your blog,I'm just really interested),TB is (or has not ever been) a prefered style of mine.I was very much a fan of the action-pause system (so exhilirating taking on a boss that by all definitions should squish you like a boss and win, after an obscene amount of potions ^^)..BUT Larian would not be Larian if they wouldn't have succeeded in somehow (the vid) convincing me that this might actually be AWEsome (am I this easy?! =)

2nd - Art style is a wee bit less my thing, although again not true exactly, I have no outspoken opinion on artstyle, but I am wondering about the "glow"?.I'm hoping it's like in GW some sort of result of maxing the graphs, so that it can be disabled or minimized by toying a bit with graph settings.The cheerfullnes doesn't bother me, the glowing is not really my thing (sorry lar)

3rd - The dialogue system seems fabulous, it even received some very interested looks from my BF who is not realy an isometric fan (so I'm rooting for that ^^).I agree that it also offers some very nice SP possibilities.Also I'm quite curious how/if the choises you make will have an alignment/reputation/-ish influence and if yes, how that influences the world around you (In dd it was very well present if i recall correct, and it was so..lifelike)..and yes ofcourse I'm looking forward to some very funny conversations smile ..Maybe it's wishfull thinking but in DD and BD I sometimes really had the impression I could hear the flemish humour in the conversation, maybe I can rustle up an example as I'm playing DD again

4th - storyline..Ofcourse for this I need to play the game but I'm not worried.This is one of the things where you guys have never dissapointed me so, I shouldn't see why you would start now =p

5th - world interaction and combining (bit on same tree for me) - finally..a game that does this again..I remember doing the dishes in DD,or pouring a beer ^^ creating a bed from two haystacks..the more the better, a vision you clearly share *hero*

1Q though, I thought somewhere I read something about moving on "zeshoeken" (sorry don't know the english word)..I'm presuming/hoping this is only in combat mode, and that exploring is just RT no?

I am very much looking forward to this, very curious about the music too..I remember with DD it was playing in the background for hours sometimes before I noticed, because it was just that good..Twas the soundtrack of my life during the times I played it ^^.. If your revenue could be ensured by my mouth-to-mouth commercial you'ld all be rich, but since that's not happening I'll just keep sharing this and talking about it to whomever wants to listen.. (and even those that don't want to :p )

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#455603 - 06/01/12 12:11 AM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: serutan]
slimgrin Offline
Orcling


Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 42
Too many good games requiring Steam nowadays...Steam DRM that is.

So I'll say it here: no DRM = day-one buy from me, even though I'm less than excited about the game so far. I support devs who shun DRM, plain and simple.

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#455612 - 06/01/12 07:37 AM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: slimgrin]
Orchestrion Offline



Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 7
There's a worthwhile post on Swen's blog addressing DRM:

http://www.lar.net/2012/01/02/how-i-couldve-been-prevented-from-being-a-pirate/

I'm not a big fan of DRM if only for the little inconveniences. Unless we're talking about 'always online DRM' I can stomach it for a game I want to support. My only hope is that the game sells exceptionally well, in order to get Larian excited and confident enough to stick to the turnbased, party RPG style.

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#455618 - 06/01/12 09:41 AM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: serutan]
Kein Offline
Ancient Dragon


Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 1680
Loc: Soviet Empire
Originally Posted By: serutan

Sounds like a good game, provided installing Steam is not a requirement, as Steam
is a deal breaker for me.


Originally Posted By: slimgrin
Too many good games requiring Steam nowadays...Steam DRM that is.

So I'll say it here: no DRM = day-one buy from me, even though I'm less than excited about the game so far. I support devs who shun DRM, plain and simple.


It seems like every Divinity game now is going to hit GoG.com year later after the release. So you always can wait for DRM-free version with some bonuses (like OST and concept-art).
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#455620 - 06/01/12 09:50 AM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Orchestrion]
Joram Online   inheaven
Ancient Dragon


Registered: 04/02/05
Posts: 2809
Loc: Between Belgium and Rivellon ....
I first place I was a little bit disppointed discovering Larian's Project E is not Div III but something else !
But reading all articles and the post on the forums I'm really happy now ! I hope a new laptop from the year 2013 can handle Divnity: Original Sin, yes it must !
I'm planning to buy a laptop in the future (not before the support for windows XP stops!), give me more flexibilty moving a PC everywhere in my house I want play the newest Larian game all day and all night wink .... in bed, bath, sofa, workroom, toilet, on a table or on the floor, ... :hihi:

Coop play? Maybe a chance I can introduce my girlfriend to the rpg genre and play together, each on a laptop ... or how ? Yes, HOW do you play in coop ? Is that via a in-house connection between 2 pc's or is this only goint to work via the world wide internet ?

Real Turn Based combat ? I believe I can only support this decision of Lar for 1001 % !!
I like variation also ! Soo many rpg's with real time combat ... In both ways (TB and RT), nice developed, both can be a thrilling experience, I'm sure!! Even "Chess" is a thrilling game if you ask me !

I still have my questions & suggestions for Divnity :Original Sin, but soon I come back ask questions or give suggestions wink

wave to all ...
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#455625 - 06/01/12 11:00 AM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Joram]
Raze Online   content
Angel


Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 17323
Loc: Canada

Multiplayer can be done locally (ie both laptops connected to a router, or directly in an ad-hoc network) or online.

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#455641 - 06/02/12 09:49 AM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Raze]
virumor Offline
Orc Warrior


Registered: 08/14/09
Posts: 754
Is it possible Original Sin will be released before Dragon Commander?

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#455643 - 06/02/12 01:38 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: virumor]
Kein Offline
Ancient Dragon


Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 1680
Loc: Soviet Empire
I have doubts, virumor. DC is more likely gonna hit the shelves this year, while OS is planned for middle of 2013.
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#455665 - 06/04/12 02:57 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Kein]
virumor Offline
Orc Warrior


Registered: 08/14/09
Posts: 754
So then... when will Original Sin and/or Dragon Commander be presented on E3?

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#455666 - 06/04/12 04:29 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: virumor]
Raze Online   content
Angel


Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 17323
Loc: Canada

Yes, both.

blog post: The caveman who discovered fire - "Today I learnt why I shouldn’t blush when spending ten of thousands of US$ when it comes to E3."

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#455667 - 06/04/12 05:07 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Raze]
Elliot_Kane Offline
Battlemage


Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 1489
Loc: London, England
That's a pretty impressive blog. I must admit I had never even considered how expensive game publishing might be and it sounds totally brutal. Just the basic cost for ONE expo in ONE country during ONE year is a pretty good yearly salary for many people! That's scary stuff!
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#455690 - 06/05/12 12:36 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Elliot_Kane]
Zerael Offline
Apprentice


Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 93
Loc: Spain
I'm looking forward to the new title; it looks interesting indeed ^_^

There is something that bugs me, though. When they say its a multiplayer title they mean that it won't have single player campaign?

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#455693 - 06/05/12 01:06 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Zerael]
AlrikFassbauer Offline
Elder Druid


Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 19505
Loc: Rogue Squadron
This question alone is a huge sign to me how far multiplyer has corrupted the gaming as such ...
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#455701 - 06/05/12 02:49 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Zerael]
Raze Online   content
Angel


Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 17323
Loc: Canada

No, you will be able to play D:OS single player.

From a comment in Divinity – Original Sin revealed !
Quote:
The idea is that the inclusion of the cooperative mode actually increases the quality of your single player experience. How that's going to work exactly I'll reserve for a future post, but rest assured that we're focussed on making single player as cool as we can.

And the topic Heated Debate @ RPGWatch
Originally Posted By: Macbeth
I can only corroborate what Swen said before: the single player experience is just as important to us as the multiplayer one.

Originally Posted By: Lar_q
Yeah, I've seen that which means we didn't communicate very well, but t think the debate is going to move away as we show more and more stuff. The cooperative mechanics translate very well to party mechanics in single player, and the system is much more complex than might be surmised from the little details we've shown so far. Rather than type essays about it, I think we'll address this in a future video under the motto show, don't tell smile


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#455703 - 06/05/12 03:08 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Raze]
Zerael Offline
Apprentice


Registered: 02/04/12
Posts: 93
Loc: Spain
I see, that seems reassuring indeed ^_^

Now I'm even more interested. I hope the translation to SP tactics goes as well as they plan.

Thank you, Raze.

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#455709 - 06/05/12 11:07 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Zerael]
Dazbog Offline
Mercenary


Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 19
When are they showing DOS at E3? Will they stream some gameplay?

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#455710 - 06/05/12 11:54 PM Re: A new Larian RPG is coming... [Re: Dazbog]
Raze Online   content
Angel


Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 17323
Loc: Canada

I don't know about public demos, but they are showing the games to a bunch of press in 15 minute time slots. They put up a video of some of their preparation for E3, so I assume we'll eventually get more details on the games, as well.

Larian home movie @ E3 – the Thomas files

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