Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Beta The writing is killing my brain cells!

The Divinity: Original Sin (beta) writing is terrible! And that's an understatement. As far as I can tell. The English version of the game in the current beta stage is making my brain die, while sometimes causing my eyes to bleed.

Everything is "cheesy"! Who the hell wrote this stuff?
The game also has a complete and total lack of humor... or the humor is simply so bad that it's making me shed tears of blood!

What the hell where you people thinking when you wrote some of this stuff?

Like those codes for the robot 5000 something. Happy kitten angry kitten... what!? Am... am I supposed to laugh or feel sorry for the poor sod who made that contraption? Also if that robot became self aware why would a control device be able to make it stop? If it's self aware then... it basically reprogrammed itself. Am I right?

And there are so many lines that just make me cringe. Can't you developers inject a spine in to those characters? And make everything more serious and less cliché?

Now I might be an expert, but I'll give you some good examples of "actual humor" in gaming and movies. The good stuff that would actually be more fitting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KB1OcN4Rrw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TNhS81w4bM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts42iuCi4IM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnLUSGQaU6Y

Stick to this and you might actually pull off something amusing here and there, but generally just be more serious and try making the experience immersive. Oh and please... no more rhyming wizards or some crazy nutjobs locked inside caves. I don't think I can hold back my urge to slaughter those guys for much longer.

Gaming. Super cerial!

Oh yes, and if they'd take your advice and copy the style of the other games, it wouldn't be cliche, would it? ;-)

Actually I like their humor, but it's depending on the person, if they can reach you with it or not.
As already told, there is no perfect game (and there are no perfect game-devs), so it has no sense to expect a game to be perfect. And much worse to ask them to throw their style into dustbin, just because you don't like it.

I didn't say anything about copying! Just stick to the style!

Ye... well congratulations! You laughed, or smiled or something, something, something at this gullible load of nonsense! I'd give you a medal if it wasn't so sad.

*sigh*
Your opinion is yours, mine is mine.
So if you want to give building critic, feel free, but don't provoke.

I take it this is your first Larian game? Not everyone has the same sense of humor. Variety is the spice of life (oops! Sorry about the cliche! Bad, wicked, naughty Zoot!)

Larian's not-so-serious writing style is one of the charms of the game for me. I loved to talking to Pontius Pirate and Ishmashell.

Ah yes. I'm sure Larian will be relieved to finally receive some well-funded advice how to go about their writing, complete with examples for... inspiration. Bravo. I'm really sorry to make you sad, but I do appreciate their humour (no medal required, thank you).

Other than that - *nods at Endre*.

Ah *Faceplam* nevermind then!

@Nolanoth:
Never ever dare criticizing Larian or DOS here. DOS is perfect with eventually "a very few minor issues", and Larian the best Studio ever. 'nuff said.

You're crying in the rain paly. That's what game critics are for. Beyond Divinity was a well written game, voiced too if you haven't forgotten and as as far as I remember when the demo was released there was one hell of backlash regarding voice acting and Larian Studios had to redo the voices.

You might not be an expert too.

But hey, good on you for identifying humour that EVERYONE finds funny. You've saved Larian a job there, and we'll undoubtedly all point out that you were the one who started it all. Bravo.

How about a few verbatim examples of this terrible writing you speak of?

Wrong thread.

You do know who made it, right ? Or maybe you were too busy "shedding tears of blood" to notice it?
And while I agree that the common man speaking in a Shakespearean manner can feels odd at time, this is how they chose to make their world. I really don't see how your examples are "better" writing. It's just something else. Quite more "everyday" something else.
And by the way, wasn't the boot camp scene from FMJ more-than-partially improvised ?

The remote is at least pretty funny and logical. After all, the dude is addicted to shapeshifting and "rather a cat, than a human". He is basically LARP'ing... so as far as writing goes, that was probably the worst example to bring up, because THAT is really good writing. Not really funny in itself, but good writing.


In the end you can comment on gameplay decisions, but how Larian does their OC in terms of writing is something you are never gonna change. They have a vision, no doubt sanitized for age ratings and mass market, and that's how they gonna roll.


I for myself, hope that user campaigns are going to be VASTLY more mature and serious. And simply have more "balls" to bring up some "hard fantasy" themes. Game of Thrones style, you know ;P (And now, GoT is not the only, or best, but it's the most well known ,p)

"You must gather your party before venturing forth."

And I think even that one has a typo in it.



I'm still not getting the joke. So the guy is in to bestiality, ye, ye wants to raise kitten. Great congrats to him, I'll be sure to sell him some catnip next time I trade with him, but when you make a rampaging killing machine - then shouldn't you be thinking about something else then cats? And if the guy is that crazy, then wouldn't it be a good idea to put him down or throw him to some asylum and earn some positive reputation by sending that crazed threat somewhere far, far away from the city? This guys is just crazy. I wouldn't trust him with bag of sand let alone some deadly inventions and a lab.

I give your trolling a 2/10.
Sadder if you're serious.

Have you ever played RPG's in your life before?

What would you suggest instead of this formulation?

Some old "Baldur's Gate"-like kind of sentence, I guess ? wink wink.

Which also happened to be really annoying and the modders simply removed it.

How about just letting a scattered party teleport in to one place or rather gate? Without any kind of comments about having to gather them. Even if everyone is in a different place just use the quick travel to send them all to a particular spot.

Also making fun out of a very annoying part of BG is just lame...

Maybe this guy is paid troll for other competing RPG

Ye? Which one? The only two other RPG's I'm waiting for are Pillars of Eternity and Wasteland 2.

Pillars of Eternity is still in some serious development stages and Wasteland 2 is doing fine. Well as fine as it can since the graphics are nowhere near Divinity's level, but it's generally going in the right direction. What can I say? I'm a Fallout fanboy. As long as you don't mention Pullout 3 around me... that vile disgusting... gah! I should be fine.

If only life was so simple. You know there where some days in the past when you'd beta test games for cash? And people would actually take you a lot more seriously. Today everything is just a big fat beta. Like ESO or BF4.

Maxos!

Huh, no, wrong dialogue.

Fallout 3 !

That being said, yeah, today's the age of the early release and ongoing betas. Which doesn't mean everything is flawed : some parts of the game are actually already ok...

Beta testing games for cash might still be an option if piracy wasn't so rampant and pc games had better sales numbers. That is pretty obvious, yet all you people who complain about not being paid to beta test conveniently forget it.

Im usually very... sensitive, to bad writing. Not concerning the style alone but, concerning setups of quests plots and characterization and other more minute details and parts of the game.

So far, two thirds of the beta played, ive been very pleased with the writing, the main plot, the general themes and feel of the game, characters and how the quests are constructed and plotted.
Much more then other current similar games out there, where i facepalm continuously, until i start feeling old and sick of it all.

As for the humor, Larian games were always written in this style and i quite like it. Its about just correct amount of tongue in cheek light fantasy humor and action content, though they weave in much more serious themes through it all - but you need to find those. (like the one concerning a small cat that survived a shipwreck)
Wouldnt want them to change anything about it.

I find it refreshing, easy, and nice. And a great tool to talk about much more deeper and serious stuff - if need be, as great humor and comedy always is.

Unlike some other industry examples of trying too hard to achieve levels of laughably idiotic, horribly executed "grimdark-epic-visceral" movies - and then failing at even that.

(btw, that NV ending is cheap crap created only to felate the players ego and the grandma transvestite mutant is horrible uninspired schlock, if you really want to know)


-edit-

Also, W2 completely fails as an old school cRPG, - and thats intentional, - in all except the "graphics".
Quite an achievement really.

There is some time still left to correct that but i really, really doubt it will happen.

So much this.
So far, I find Larian's writing to be vastly superior to any of the cheap ass examples given above. (The games they're from were great, but those are definitely not good examples of "great humor"...) The space ghouls quest in F:NV, for instance, I remember fondly.

Anyway, not everything has to be the same as those so-called "mature" games that are so popular and actually have nothing really mature in them, except maybe that they take themselves way too seriously.

Larian's dialogue is one of their strength for me. I can't actually undertand how you would not consider Ishmashell to be good writing... especially compared to the try-hard grim-dark nonsense of most fantasy games. Those are the ones I find cheesy...

You've just shown yourself you lack any humour whatsoever. No wonder you want the game to get rid of all that is fun and make it super serious, and a complete and utter drag as result.
No thanks, we got enough games who take itself way too serious already. And now we also got a poster who thinks the little poke at BG should be taken away since... well, I don't know. Why?

Then how do you feel about skeleton warrior's running at you and saying "My magic will grind your bones!" ...that makes no sense at all! He is a warrior. An animated corpse, yet he doesn't really use any magic and he attacks in melee range.

And how is magic supposed to grind bones anyway? They got some magic grinder in the back somewhere? Maybe at the church? I don't get it.

Not to mention the undead repeat that line over an over again.

Why can't they say something like: "I shall flay the flesh from your bones!" or "No one can stop death!" or "Death shall be your release!" you know something catchy and dark, but NO! You get the same line over and over again.

And how about a trait like "Stench". If you smell like some kind of wet dog and you are supposedly "less attractive to enemies" (which makes no sense). How are k9's, demons and undead supposed to be affected? These guys love the stench of corpses and sometimes they are corpses. To a creature like a zombie it doesn't matter how you smell. Like I said... no sense at all.

Some piece of advice Nolanoth. Don't look for "Sense" to deeply here, you might be disappointed. And beside, this is Larian Fantasy world. Maybe the logic behing its God Creator is not the same as in other God Creator logic. However, I admit this is sometimes really hard to comply with.

Not a matter of "sense", but a matter of expressing your opinion. Again, Nolan North is sounding like a jerk who just expect by his divine right that the Larians© will listen to him and provide him with the game he needs, not the game they ... Deserve... Wait, no.

Ergo, we don't even want to listen to him. It's as simple as that. It serves as a kind of distraction to answer his thread, though, because
1/ Humans are attracted to trolls like kittens are as ball of whool,
2/ We are waiting for the next update so feedbacks and bu reports are probably already obsolete.

@Nolanoth
Brainless Skeletons yelling nonsense? I'm not very shocked. Not to mention your provided examples are sooo desperatly generic...

But there's an easy way to make things have more sense.

Just change Stench in to "Alluring Scent". Here's how the description could look:

"By mixing magic with perfume you have a created an alluring magical scent, which partially disorients your enemies making you harder to hit."

There you go! Makes sense now.

Or Demon... how exactly is my character suddenly a demon? Why not change it to something like Infernal Heritage?

The description would be very simple. Like:

"It seems one of your ancestors was a fire demon and the hidden powers within your blood have finally awakened. Fire damage will now slightly heal you and you will have a chance to set a melee attacker on fire when receiving damage, but any healing spells cast upon you shall be 50% less effective."

Wouldn't this be a lot more simple and logical?



By your logic undead skeletons shouldn't cast any spells then either.

Just because they have no brain does not mean they are intellectually challenged.

If I may add. Most of what you're saying can be changed at any time.

The descriptions for talents can easily be changed and what a squelleton shouts can be changed just as easily.

Considering that the game isn't even released I doubt that commenting on that type of writing is useful as it is subject to change.

That is true, but I wanted to comment on that in advance before the game gets released. Personally when ever I see good writing I get a good first impression regarding a title. When things make more sense you feel a lot more immersed and attached to the world.

Oh. Ok.

Lol, yeah, some of them would even kill themselves for asking the Right Question ^^

I find Stench to be much better than your Alluring Scent... and more believable.

But, do continue on... I am entertained

:lol:

Are you seriously asking how a magic can grind bones? Like ... seriously?
What if its some kind of magically created force that can crush an enemy... ? Do i really need to invent a hundred different ways that can be achieved by... magic?

- undead mages dont work as they should in the current version of the BETA, which may be the reason why too many of the undead repeat that line too...
Just a thought.




:snort lol:




Simple - no, it wouldnt. Logical... well, we are talking about high fantasy, and of the specific setting and style kind - but - good suggestion. Good ideas.
(except demons are not in as such, as far as i know ... though there are some "source" creatures serving as Divinity kind of "demons")

I suggest not using fallacies such as calling onto presumed higher logic and simplicity, or "making more sense" strawmans, in general.

What you need to get is that Larian Divinity setting is of a specific, lighter kind and so doesnt really need to try to be some kind of "realistic - believable" fantasy kind and style - as you prefer it.

And you can make suggestions without attacking anyone, using strawman arguments or ad hominems.
While being ready to accept any of those suggestions might not get accepted. Because thats just how things work in this kind of fan - developer relationship.

Otherwise youll become like cromcrom.

"By mixing magic with perfume you have a created an alluring magical scent, which partially disorients your enemies making you harder to hit."

Given how much of a punch to the nose a lot of modern perfumes are - to say nothing of medievalish ones which were often meant to cover up poor hygeine and thus even more pungent - I don't think magic would be necessary for this. :P

Sarcasm aside, most of those trait names (and many other things) are meant to be referential rather than fully descriptive. ("Raistlin" is the most obvious one in this regard.) You can explain them however you want.

I suppose that they could come with descriptions that suggest a few different possibilities, "Perhaps you were... or maybe you..." style. That's a end-of-development polish thing though.

Also, just think about how much and in what way exactly someone must smell to repeal even the undead.

Besides, its not nice to be so mean to the undead to make them olfactory deficient or challenged, just because they are undead. Its not like they are ... dead, you know?

Dont be a ... well , ...hmm... what would be the correct term for such a ..."racism"? - really?

It smells like someone obviously never read Pratchett... btw.

May I suggest you the exact same thing from some of your other posts. However, you might find it difficult, in DOS setting, not to call for sometimes blatant "logical" stuff.

No you may not. Generally and because i am not claiming something is better - because it makes more sense or is "more logical", though difference is beyond your grasp to understand.

When you are done indulging yourself in believing that I am so utterly stupid, maybe you will start reading and acknowledging your own sentences ? Good start to evolve, recognizing your own failures and limitations.
But well, I indeed don't understand what difference you are talking about. Between "Make sense" and "Logical" ? If so, will you be so kind as to enlighten me ?

And let's not forget that some Larian undeads, especially pairs of skeletons, have a tendencie for self destruction if they "think" to much. Boy that was great writing, actually ^^. (Was it Divine Divinity, or Beyond Divinity ? I think it was Divine Divinity. I still Lol at it ^^)

- Its not just about making some kind of logic according to personal preferences. btw.
Internal logical coherence of the setting, then the general fantasy lore - and value in gameplay itself - are important parts all.

As for Larian specific lore and setting-s ... its just what it is man.
We can talk about details and suggest different things about it - but i dont think it makes any sense trying to force in very different things belonging to different settings and styles of fantasy, that are too different than this kind of a style and angle of it.


Have you ever read anything by Terry Pratchett? Surely you have. Would you complain about his setting peculiarities in this way too?


hmm... eh... huh... hah hah.... hehehehe! :lol:

Must be the overflow of the electricity in their brains!
(yeah, whatever, its a different kind of lore then i mentioned)
If you want a more plausible explanation, for some reason, the sudden increase in electrical currents would create a spike in temperature - their "brains" would heat up suddenly - therefore explode.

Although there are differences between what creatures use as electricity in their bodies - and what we use for technology in modern time, thanks to Nikola Tesla.
And... we could talk much more about details of it all...

But thats not the primary point, although general sense of believability and plausibility is always important to consider.
What such a feature is used for is equally important - if not more - depending on the exact setting lore details and specifics.

I could certainly see how this could be applied and used for different... characters.
oh...the puns i could create with this... oh the sarcastic jibes!

:head explodes:

Agreed, although itching.
Agreed again. It's Larian world, system, writing, level design, character planning and such. Just can't help being very frustrated sometimes, (even though I know this beta is only part of the whole game, and that some features will probably make sense in the long term, and that we are still missing stuff), and expressing it strongly :-(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4HE4Ucsg1I
AAAAW well, thanks Larian XD
Hiver, would that be our skelettons discussing "logic" stuff ?

Ah! But you see right there... They didnt fall apart because of electricity. But because they used realism and realistic thinking in a fantasy setting. :P

Too much of it is like kriptonite for fantasy creatures, eh?

Besides, its clearly a humorous take on the very common trope of such games.
It is fourth wall breaking but, what can you do. people make games and they they put in whatever they want, eh? (there were much worse examples of it in BG games too)