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Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter
I also know if someone is burning and I knock them in a water place it will go out and they go to warm (oops). Also, obviously a typo, my post should have read "not the same with oil and burning enemies"?
If so, it's definitely a bug.


Knocking enemies down into poison works and poisons them. I'll keep trying to test this.

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Sounds about equal to Deus Ex; where lockpicking, multitooling and computer gets less useful when the next games you know the keys and codes smile.


So what? That doesn't mean it's a good design decision.


Wulfram Quest

You can either escort Wulfram or leave him to die. Escorting him is always the best option, because the enemies you fight give you more XP: 550 + 550 + 775 as opposed to 125 + 775 for turning him down. I recommend that you lose the random 125 XP for turning him down and just have that fight feature the same enemies as you would get if you escort him, making the experience equal, and making it more of a personal preference whether you save him or not.

(This seems reasonable enough, but I'm sure someone will fight me to the death over it anyway.)


If you think that agreeing to the escort and winning it should get a higher reward, I have an idea for that as well: If you successfully escort Wulfram, when you find him in the bar, he will identify items of at least Loremaster 1 and Loremaster 2 quality at a 50% discount.

Tada, now you have a unique quest reward which is useful, but not so useful that you feel compelled to do it only that way.

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Except for me, probably having a char with Loremaster, it *is* useless wink
I don't quite except you can get the same reward for less effort (ie. not having to escort a fragile person who runs away from you way too fast).

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Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter
Except for me, probably having a char with Loremaster, it *is* useless wink
I don't quite except you can get the same reward for less effort (ie. not having to escort a fragile person who runs away from you way too fast).


Yes, it doesn't matter for characters who have Loremaster. I consider that okay, because if it was a great reward for all class combinations, it would only be replacing one "no-brainer reward" with another.

Escorting Wulfram takes basically no effort at all anyway. You move much faster than he does. Those are not hard fights, they are only there so you have to actually escort him instead of sending him to run back alone. Equal XP and an only-okay bonus reward would make your decision there more about what you think your characters should do than about metagaming to get the best reward. I don't like to metagame, but I will.

Last edited by Stabbey; 20/04/14 07:21 PM. Reason: edit
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There indeed is an issue with metagaming. It's especially obvious with Traits giving bonuses to various abilities...

As for quests, I agree for Wulfram. There really aren't any reasons to refuse helping him except personal preferences.
Maybe refusing to help him and coming back later, you would find his body with some items from his pack or something. So either you do the quest to get "lots" of xp now, or you refuse and get less xp but one or two items later. No reason to get XP when you didn't do anything, but still refusing would give something


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Yeah dialog based traits should NEVER give direct +1 bonus to skills or stats. It's cheese to the extreme. These things should either remain pure dialog related fluff (Although much to my shock, D:OS does not seem to use these traits anywhere in dialog with NPC's only for COOP dual dialog......) or add % values to certain things, like damage or health, or resistances etc.

So these traits are not just cheese, they are also not roleplaying related at all. You get them from dialog, but you can't use them for dialog. (And no, dual dialog is not dialog, talking to myself is a monologue ;P)

Last edited by eRe4s3r; 21/04/14 10:28 AM.
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Originally Posted by eRe4s3r
Yeah dialog based traits should NEVER give direct +1 bonus to skills or stats. It's cheese to the extreme. These things should either remain pure dialog related fluff (Although much to my shock, D:OS does not seem to use these traits anywhere in dialog with NPC's only for COOP dual dialog......) or add % values to certain things, like damage or health, or resistances etc.

So these traits are not just cheese, they are also not roleplaying related at all. You get them from dialog, but you can't use them for dialog. (And no, dual dialog is not dialog, talking to myself is a monologue ;P)


there are some conversations where you can charm reason or intimidate an NPC and the stone-paper-scissor begins (BTW this thing is broken no Bonus and only charm 2 i got 54DP against 3 DP?!?!)


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You move much faster than he does.

Ehm, what? No, no, I don't... not by a long shot. Usually takes a turn getting to him when combat starts cause he runs so fast away. Good thing for healing spells.

I agree with Koin. You shouldn't get equal XP for not doing anything. Then there's no choice on a meta-game perspective either... get all XP for trying to save him, or get all XP for doing nothing. Gee, what would the best option be?

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Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter

Ehm, what? No, no, I don't... not by a long shot. Usually takes a turn getting to him when combat starts cause he runs so fast away. Good thing for healing spells.


I found this statement so bizarre that I had to check for myself again. I see what you're doing wrong. This is an escort mission, and you are standing still waiting for him to move first. You're letting your escortee take the lead. There's a good five seconds or so where you have control of your party before he starts to move. Plenty of time for you to take the lead.


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I agree with Koin. You shouldn't get equal XP for not doing anything. Then there's no choice on a meta-game perspective either... get all XP for trying to save him, or get all XP for doing nothing. Gee, what would the best option be?


Whatever it is in-character for your PC's to do.

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No, I don't... by the time I have control and can click anywhere outside the house, the guys already in combat. Getting in lead isn't an option, and I'm not waiting.
I'm not doing the horrible mistake many people do in the Divinity II expansion wink

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Huh. That's interesting and sounds like some kind of bug. For me, every single time I've escorted him, I instantly have control as soon as the conversation ends, and I can start moving well before he does.

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Last time I did this a few days ago, he took off immediately for me as well.


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I'm attempting a playthrough using a Ranger who is liberally using special arrows. It almost certainly won't finish by the time of the new patch, of course. I'm using one or two a fight usually, except for obviously easy fights. It can help a lot.

For instance, the north cliffs encounter has three archers. If you approach from the east or west, those archers focus on the closest character and almost kill them, while they remain hard to get to. My ranger used a Steamcloud Arrow and wiped out all three a lot faster than anyone else could have, with the possible exception of a Rogue who approached from the rear out of combat.

For the Lighthouse Horror, I knew that the fight is extremely difficult if you engage the Wolf Horrors, so two Stunning Arrows stopped two in their tracks (and a Crushing Fist knocked the other one down), letting me move past the wolves and go right for the boss. More Knockdown and Stunning arrows aided in keeping the archers and wolves from doing too much damage until the Horror was dead.

*****

I know there almost certainly won't be a "Way of the Rogue" thing, but what the heck. Some random brainstorm ideas of varying quality, in no particular order, for the 5 ability ranks:

Improved Reflexes – which increases the chance to evade. I thought of putting this at WotRogue Rank 1 and giving it a 1-3% increase per rank of Way of the Rogue.

I’m not sure how evasion is calculated, especially since DEX is the key factor, and Luck is also calculated in, but the way I saw it was sort-of like this: If the normal maximum Evade chance was 50%, then with maxed Way of the Rogue, the maximum evade chance would be 65% (50% + (5 WotR * 3%). If max evasion is larger, then the benefit would have to be smaller. If max evasion is a lot lower than 50%, then +15% would also be too much.

I don’t really know how it works enough to make educated guesses on how much it should be.


Fleetfooted – a one-time bonus to your Movement, which increases it by somewhere between +0.10m and 0.33m. That’s probably quite a bit, as I have seen how well points in Speed translate into Movement.


Adrenaline – Gain +2 Turn AP when landing a killing blow. (Does not stack, even if you get multiple kills in a round.)


Keen Eye - +3-5% Critical Chance. Admittedly not great if you’re always landing backstabs, but helpful otherwise?


Patience - Increase Maximum AP by 2 to 4. Not sure about this one. It only really matters if you save AP, but an extra 2 or 4 available can mean a lot. I'm not sure if it's potentially too powerful.

Last edited by Stabbey; 23/04/14 11:06 AM. Reason: Way of the Rogue
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Originally Posted by Stabbey
[spoiler]I'm attempting a playthrough using a Ranger who is liberally using special arrows. It almost certainly won't finish by the time of the new patch, of course. I'm using one or two a fight usually, except for obviously easy fights. It can help a lot.

For instance, the north cliffs encounter has three archers. If you approach from the east or west, those archers focus on the closest character and almost kill them, while they remain hard to get to. My ranger used a Steamcloud Arrow and wiped out all three a lot faster than anyone else could have, with the possible exception of a Rogue who approached from the rear out of combat.

For the Lighthouse Horror, I knew that the fight is extremely difficult if you engage the Wolf Horrors, so two Stunning Arrows stopped two in their tracks (and a Crushing Fist knocked the other one down), letting me move past the wolves and go right for the boss. More Knockdown and Stunning arrows aided in keeping the archers and wolves from doing too much damage until the Horror was dead.

*****

I know there almost certainly won't be a "Way of the Rogue" thing, but what the heck. Some random brainstorm ideas of varying quality, in no particular order, for the 5 ability ranks:

Improved Reflexes – which increases the chance to evade. I thought of this at WotRogue Rank 1 and increase per rank of Way of the Rogue.

I’m not sure how evasion is calculated, especially since DEX is the key factor, but the way I saw it was sort-of like this: If the normal maximum Evade chance was 50%, then with maxed Way of the Rogue, the maximum evade chance would be 65% (50% + (5 WotR * 3%). If max evasion is larger, then the benefit would have to be smaller. If max evasion is a lot lower than 50%, then +15% would also be too much.

I don’t really know how it works enough to make educated guesses on how much it should be.


Fleetfooted – a one-time bonus to your Movement, which increases it by somewhere between +0.10m and 0.33m. That’s probably quite a bit, as I have seen how well points in Speed translate into Movement.


Adrenaline – Gain +2 Turn AP when landing a killing blow. (Does not stack, even if you get multiple kills in a round.)


Keen Eye - +3-5% Critical Chance. Admittedly not great if you’re always landing backstabs, but helpful otherwise?


Patience - Increase Maximum AP by 2 to 4. Not sure about this one. It only really matters if you save AP, but an extra 2 or 4 available can mean a lot. I'm not sure if it's potentially too powerful.[spoiler]


You won't be able to do it before the next update for now, but I'd been curious to know your opinion on dual lone wolf warriors ( fighter or knight preset ). Not to brag about it - I do not plan on playing a frontline fighter anyway in the final game - but just for comparison sake. Everything else sounds horridly complicated to setup and play, which is kinda unfair and unbalanced. Just rush WotW rank 3 to grab the infamous phoenix dive and the second rush ( battering ram ) as well as whirlwind.
One would have to drink potions a lot and take advantage of chairs, beds, and benches out of combat, but most encounter won't take more than 2 turns...


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I've only just started trying Lone Wolf out now, so I can't offer any conclusions or insights. I tried a Battlemage/Ranger combo and got them to level 3 before I decided that I really needed a lot more Ability points, even to just give minimal abilities to the Battlemage. So I started over with that guy as a lone wolf. It hasn't been too much harder, but he also hasn't been so incredibly super-durable either.

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