Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
You'll have no pithy one-liners from me!
-Carth

During the realm crossing, I felt like a martyr to meaning itself. My one rabid solace was a blurry image of you, the hero who would recognize me. And were you to purge me of this existential woe or help me return home, you would remain my hero either way.
-Shaela

[Linked Image]

Mipsy and I present our WIP module: Of Doves and Demons. It's fifteen years after the void dragon has been defeated, but time and space have been damaged: the rifts have opened. Other worlds blend with Rivellon in strange ways but life goes on. You, a young adventurer at the top of his or her class of a guard academy, have been invited by Bale the Dove to a supposed adventuring school in the small farming town of Aeril. On the way, sly demon Carth, former disciple of Bellegar, begins stalking you relentlessly, rewarding and punishing you randomly. Explore the massive and corrupt city of Port Elensar, Uldar the dead underground city of magic copper, the dreamy Elliran Isles, and other places.

Make difficult choices, some reminiscent of real life issues, like deciding whether magical modification of crops is safe or not, or at least should be disclosed to the townsfolk. Decide if a girl should make an arduous trek back to her home realm, or if she should accept Rivellon. Join a cult that destroys (custom designed) waypoints to collect their magical energies, or refuse to deprive yourself of such convenience and annihilate the cult. Become a source hunter, or use source to destroy your enemies.

Deal with philosophical, moral, literary, and psychedelic themes. Tread both dark and humorous tones surrounding infinity, the multiverse, time, death, environmentalism, grey and not so grey morality alike. Enjoy poetic dialogs, many cleverisms, and neo-folk tales alike. Meet the single most evil character I could possibly wrench from my heart, a brother of a certain historian we're all familiar with. Enjoy profuse and deep references to a number of works from various genres, including Jorge Borges' Library of Babel and Rene Demaul's A Serious Night of Drinking, references to other RPGs (especially NWN).

Adventure with new companions like Vell, a cleric with a gambling problem, or Esma, a amnesiac scoundrel and a sailor who fancies herself a good samaritan. See familiar faces with brand new dialogs. More than 30,000 words of dialog/books already written, with a plan of having at least 100,000 in total. It's an interactive novella with lots of combat as well!

Explore gorgeous lands and metropolises designed by Mipsy. Trek through steppes, islands, deserts, fairylands, dungeons, demonic realms, and other climates with incredible atmospheres. Enjoy a brand new soundtrack by the talented musician Vindsvept.

Here are some screenshots of Aeril, a small town founded with the red seed slaughter in its early history, a shameful event that still haunts the town. Aeril supplies much of the food for Port Elensar. But is it a willing relationship? Break Aeril free from the tyranny of Port Elensar, or annihilate every vestige of independence it cradles.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Behold the the beautiful but hollow city of Port Elensar, where money is blood and you'll be qaudruplecrossed repeatedly. Magic, religion, and anything else that stands in the way of commerce is shunned.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Feast your eyes on the darkness of Uldar! Find out why the city died and discover the limits of your sanity at the same time.

[Linked Image]

If all this sounds interesting, perhaps you'd like to join us to make this a reality. We're looking for reasonably dedicated, self-driven writers, scripters, and terrain designers. If you want to script or write a lot, you should be willing to read a fair amount to figure out what's going on already. If you'd like to contribute something small (a quest idea, dialog, a model or texture, a cave or house or something you've designed), that would be helpful as well. There will be plenty of room to integrate just about anything that's high quality and isn't too large (and even a big map or quest arc could potentially make it in). We do have fairly high standards, so just a warning that we're not going to accept just anything, but if it looks like you put a lot of work into something and you want it to have a home, send me a message.

There are many things for us to do still, and we would like to release a fairly developed version of the mod, so sadly an initial release date is at least a couple months in the future I would say, though perhaps we will decide to release a reasonably finished version of the starting town of Aeril to see an initial response.


Here's a primer on the the background of the module:

On the Rift Shift

Though the source hunters defeated the void dragon fifteen years ago, time and space had already decayed immensely before the wicked beast was banished. Various planes of existence once separate began merging with ours. Those of most likeness to ours seem most connected to our own universe. Sanctuary and The Forgotten Realms seem most connected to ours. However, the first documented case is of a gentleman named Brian æ³¥hruin Turner who hails from a land called Earth, of which he described numerous strange things, including cars, computers, airplanes, science, and other highly complex, mechanical things that we can hardly imagine. Dhruin is more disturbed by our world than us by his, though he has since adapted and we obliged his wish to join an adventuring school since we seemed to have learned as much as we could from him.

The rifts operate in numerous fashions. In some cases, sailors from other realms claimed to have gone off course and drifted into the deep sea, only to arrive in Cyseal, Port Elensar, or elsewhere in Rivellon. Dhruin claims to have gone to sleep and had an incredible lucid dream where breached some kind of icy barrier, and woke up in Hiberheim, only to be captured by the mad King Boreas. Thus far, no one appears to have fallen asleep here in Rivellon and woken in another realm, though obviously this is difficult to verify.

On land, some ancient waypoints and rifts in both Rivellon and other lands seem to have shifted their attunement from their old paths to new locations, sometimes extremely dangerous, while other rifts have spontaneously arrived in previously riftless locations. What is curious is that it is far easier to arrive in Rivellon through any of these means than it is to leave it, though that has not stopped interdimensional traders from establishing various difficult routes. Riftsmen, sailors and traders who consistently travel these different rifts, have noted that the actual time and the perceived time of travel differ greatly. Also, the winds seem to tend to blow towards Rivellon, so it takes longer to keave Rivellon than it does to enter it. For example, famed rift sailor Jor Highfell logged 247 days of perceived travel from Cyseal to Neverwinter and back, while only 13 days had passed in Rivellon during his absence. Different individuals seem to experience travel at different rates. Children and women seem to experience time slower then men, hence older rift è­šå½³n are most common and there are few women. Perplexedly, traveling by land rift is perceived instantaneously but the actual delay between stepping into a rift and arriving at the exit can be years!

From my own astronomical observations, I have noticed constellations have changed, with stars appearing closer together and the night sky shining significantly brighter than 20 years ago when I first studied at the Institute of Magic, Space, and Time. The prospect of a collision of realms is I believe a real one, but with a likelihood and possible effects I have no knowledge of.

Your puzzled loremaster,
Theondrus Featherheart


Click here for more goals in great detail for the module, listed roughly in the order of importance (some very minor spoilers, though stuff probably won't be implemented exactly as I plan here).

Dynamic characters with extensive dialogues and personalities, clever jokes. Inevitably there will be citizens and guards that say the same thing, but other then them, I want plenty of unique characters: including you! I'd like many chances for people to roleplay their character, establish history, develop an alignment, etc. I'd especially like to make 3-4 interesting companions with their own opinions and agendas and quests.


Professional, detailed and cool looking terrain with lots of variety, secrets, and background lore. Every statue will have at least a sentence of explanation. Towns and buildings will for the most part actually make sense, though of course they won't be perfectly realistic either.


Sidequests galore. The main quest will essentially build out of many detailed sidequests with significantly different endings, which means every play through will be different.


Grey morality with delayed consequences. I don't want easy choices, and I want some choices to have effects much later than when the choice was made. For example, the very beginning is a fork in the road. A demon, Carth, will tell you about the two paths, and will tell you about a curious ring kept by a rabid dog on the right path, and a weak man to the left. Many players will be enticed by the ring and will go right first, but this will have at least two consequences: the man, Vell, on the left path will be hurt by another demon residing in his cellar while you try to kill the dog for the ring. Second, the player will equip the ring and discover that it's cursed and gives a negative status effect and cannot be unequipped (reduced willpower or something in addition to relatively powerful early game stats like +1 speed, +1 perception, and the ability to cast self-invisibility.) Was going right for the ring the wrong thing to do?

But if you go left for the man, and return to right path after helping the man, the ring will be gone and the dogs will be dead. You might find the ring on an adventurer in the town (via pickpocket, killing him, or charming/intim/reasoning him out of it). Vell tells you about the ring so you'll know what to expect as well (though he won't know where the ring is). You'll also be able to recruit Vell later if you help him out, and he might offer you some useful tidbits.


Your moral choices will develop an alignment like the one used in Neverwinter Nights and D&D, with the axes of good and evil and chaos and lawfulness. The alignment you choose will do a lot to determine how the main quest plays out.

Balanced distribution of static and random loot. I'd like to find a nice balance of unique items and random loot. I want the unique items to be interesting, to have a history (in books or discovered in other ways), and to offer niche effects while being less powerful overall than some random loot items. Say you have a powerful chest piece with high armor, resists, and +2/3 strength but it slows your movement speed significantly and your speed by 1. It's going to be tough to decide if you want to use it unless you have ways to compensate for the drawbacks. I want to toy with potential stats on random loot, so that it's possible (but unlikely) to find a staff with +loremaster, for example (which is impossible now). I'd also like to see spell modifiers on both random loot and unique loot, like ? more arrow shot with barrage or small fireball has a larger radius and 2 turns less in cooldown. I'd also like to make some new spells for all levels (a mass teleport would be awesome).


No filler combat, only important fights. I want this loot to actually feel important by making combat encounters difficult and unique. Almost every fight (except maybe the first couple ones since your character is so weak) should have a boss or miniboss (a unique character) and good loot and experience to boot. Each battle should require tactics and push you to the limits, but not drag on forever. Relative to the main game, I think I want enemies to do more damage, have a greater variety of spells, have specific tactics, but have less health.

As far as pacing, I think the players should get to level 4 or 5 fairly quickly, but then level a little slower because I think 5-12 is sort of the sweet spot for power and limitation; you won't get killed by an angry chicken, but you're not eating ogres for lunch either. You won't have 4 or 5 skill specializations unless that's all you spend your points on, but that might not be the best idea because I want every ability to feel important...


Abilities, talents, traits = personality. I want skills to open up ways to complete quests. For example, having 1 lucky charm when you talk to Vell, a compulsive gambler, might let you open his demonic chest (basically a portal to a demonic realm) in a gamble that a useful object rather than a demon will come out of it. If you try to use the chest without his permission, he'll attack you and you'll be forced to kill him, which could have ramifications later on. Having the Zombie talent and Pet Pal lets you talk to a zombie dog. And I definitely want a lot more opportunities than the main game to use charisma and other skills (like barter, politician talent) to get better quest rewards, avoid fights, and solve quests in alternate ways. Say if you have the spiritual trait you'll be able to say certain things to a monk, so it's not just a one-way road from your actions → your character, but your character traits also affects how people react to you.


Variation and a breathing world. Hopefully all of this points to non-linearity and replayability, a world that to some extent feels alive. Ideally enemies will scale with you and have stronger gear if you wait a long time to kill them. I won't to avoid the sense that a zone is for beginners, another for mid-range characters, etc. Let's say you start by going on the right path and get the cursed ring, and the demon in Vell's basement hurts Vell. Later on, the demon might attack Aeril and kill someone (unless you save them). The demon will be stronger than if you had killed him in Vell's cellar.


A serious but also humorous tone. I found the story of the main game a kind of exaggerated epicness, that you're these source hunters that used to be gods or something. I didn't ask to be a God. I want NPCs to mock you repeatedly saying you aren't special and that you'll most likely die in a cave somewhere. Some people and lore will be kind of ridiculous and outlandish, but I also want some NPCs to talk like they're not just a character in a video game saying snarky stuff, but like they did terrible things for the greater good but aren't sure if they made the right decision and are wallowing in a palpable self-doubt. The story will have its epic aspects I hope, but I hope to integrate it more naturally.


Balanced economy. Ideally the economy will be a little better balanced than the original game, where it was pretty easy (in my opinion) to get enough gold to buy almost anything. I don't want 50 paintings lying around for the taking, and those that are around will be worth much less. I'd also like to have a few black market dealers who are the only ones who buy stolen goods. I also want stealing to have consequences even if you aren't caught.


Hope people are excited, and that we might find some people willing to join Mipsy and I. If you've read everything in this post, I applaud you.

Yours truly,
Baardvark

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Update: 1/16/15

I'm excited to announce that The_Master_Rat has joined the team as scripter and critic. We are making good progress scripting the quests and dialogs for the starting town. But as all games require, we will need testers and readers to verify that the quests work right and make sense. We want to give players a lot of freedom, but that means that people may do things in different orders than we expect and have scripted for. So if you want to test, we'll probably have a fairly developed version within a couple weeks. Not polished by any means, but it will have a lot of the content.

This content so far is still mostly writing for now, but writing with lots of choices. Tough, detailed choices highly dependent on your character's development. Your talents, traits, attributes, and abilities all will represent you, not as mere statistics to min-max for combat, but as huge factors in how you will be able to roleplay your character. A lot like the Fallouts, Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and the like. Here's a screenshot to give you an idea. It minorly spoils one of the quests, but hey, how else am I going to demonstrate this? There's also other ways to solve it (with different results) not shown here. The bottom dialog option is to donate 50 gold the charity which supports farmers (given that town you're in is a farming town and the armor on the wall was supposedly wielded by the founder, Sejin). In another quest, you can use high intelligence, pack mule, pet pal, politician, barter, and more to get someone to do what you want. Or you could just kill them dead, it's up to you.

[Linked Image]

Yes, there's some combat, but only a few encounters right now. Perhaps, however, there could be more if we had more members on the team. Specifically, we'd love someone to make Uldar, the underground city, or some wild lands surrounding Aeril, the starting town. Mipsy only has so much time, and pretty soon we're going to hit the point where our content, specifically combat, is bottlenecked by the space in the town.

Another scripter or writer would be great too! Really, anyone who is interested in doing quality work and shares our vision of a true role playing experience: PM me or post here. Here's another little screenshot, except no dialog because there can only be so many spoilers.

[Linked Image]

One last announcement: This mod is basically going to be designed with one player in mind, though it will still be perfectly playable with two. However, given the huge amount of text and dialog, players will have to have a similar love and speed of reading and be able to agree about how to approach situations. It's unlikely we'll implement the RPS model for making player decisions, though maybe we will if enough people would like to play this co-op. Players will just have to talk their decisions out instead of leaving it up to chance.

Last edited by Baardvark; 16/01/15 07:07 PM.
Joined: Oct 2014
B
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
B
Joined: Oct 2014
This looks really good, is it still in progress?

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
It's kind of on hold until/if the editor gets improved. I'm also running into a serious problem where I can't make characters global. They just dissapear when I try and generate their definitions, and I get these errors for various lines between 640 to 710, saying numbers like "-1" and "-2" are unexpected. Basically the mod is broken until I replace all the files. I have no idea what these lines are referring to, but I'm guessing some kind of character scripts or something. I can't really proceed until I get this figured out, and I don't understand at all why this is happening...

I have been writing kind of folk-tale short stories that would appear in the world, but these works will remain their own entities until I can fix this issue. I think we probably set a little too big of a project for ourselves and it probably isn't going to manifest as how I described above.

Thanks for the support though. If I could fix the global character issue, I would be able to make more progress with at least the starting town.

Joined: Jul 2014
R
addict
Offline
addict
R
Joined: Jul 2014
What method are you trying to use to make the characters global? There should be a checkbox in the Character panel to check whether a character is Global or not.

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
That's what I'm doing. I just check the global box, generate definitions, and it breaks. I haven't had this problem in other test maps and stuff, not sure what's different here.

Edit: I've noticed something interesting. There are two terrains on the map, and characters in the newer terrain (which are the interiors of buildings) don't disappear when made global. But also Jahan and Madora on the first map don't disappear when made global. New characters I make don't suffer from the problem either. So I guess I just have to delete all the old characters and replace them with new ones (or at least if they're going to be made global) Still not sure why some of the characters broke and others didn't, but I suppose I have a solution for now.

Last edited by Baardvark; 08/11/14 04:22 AM.
Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Nevermind, the problem is in the version from the get go. Probably it was broken from a patch or something. I've tried deleting all the characters, all the items, all the code, everything, and I still get the errors. Even if I replace all the script files from a fresh mod (that doesn't get the errors), I still get the errors. Unless someone else has had similar errors and fixed them, I've run out of ideas and this module is permanently shelved.

Joined: Oct 2014
B
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
B
Joined: Oct 2014
I've been digging in and learning a lot about the scripting and editor. I've overcome some errors of my own.

Looking at someone else's work is a learning process too, if you want to upload your project I'll take a look and maybe it's something you're just overlooking

Joined: Aug 2014
M
member
Offline
member
M
Joined: Aug 2014
Is this mod still "permanently" shelved? It sounds very promising though!
Or do you keep it on hold until the editor is useable?

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
FANTASTIC NEWS! I've fixed the errors. Some of the triggers were broken, and deleting them removed the errors. If anyone finds similar problems, go to the story folder of your mod and check out the "log" text file. I scrolled down until I found the errors which seemed to be clustering around teleport and patrol triggers. If only the error message had told me that the errors would be displayed in the log file, I could've solved this months ago >.<

Anyway, less fantastic news is that I've probably lost my level designer. Also, I'm working on the mod in my signature right now, so I want to finish that first (and I'll be able to apply those learned skills and changes to my mod anyway).

Of Doves and Demons really is insanely ambitious and if it does get finished, it's going to be way pared down compared to what I had originally imagined. I might only finish the first town, but that alone is going to take me a while to flesh out because it's going to have a number of quests.

Ultimately, this might be more of a passive, dialog heavy kind of mod than I had first hoped for. But that depends on how good at scripting I get and my own patience. Thanks for the support, though. Without your inquiry, I probably would not have investigated again (or at least done so much later).

Joined: Oct 2014
Location: Hogwarts
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2014
Location: Hogwarts
I have a similar problem with NPCs disappearing when they're set to Global. I noticed one odd thing. If you open the Characters window your visible Global NPCs are listed under Global while your invisible Global NPCs are listed under Global Others.

So far, the only way I can fix the issue is by deleting and remaking the character, as you said.

Joined: Oct 2014
B
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
B
Joined: Oct 2014
Glad you got it fixed. It stumped me when I looked at it for you.

Joined: Oct 2014
Location: Hogwarts
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2014
Location: Hogwarts
The problem is that it keeps happening. I can get NPCs to appear, but usually have to remake each character in my game 2 or 3 times. I've tested a few things but can't seem to figure out what causes the NPC to appear in Global Other instead of Global. I looked up "Divinity Engine +Global Others" but there's no articles or posts about it yet. If I figure it out, I'll post a solution. Until then, you just gotta keep remaking the NPC. Make sure it appears in-game before you give it unique features.

Joined: Jul 2014
M
stranger
Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Jul 2014
Still willing to work on the maps if bard decides to go make different zones. I'll probably have to relearn the engine as I haven't touched the editor in months :o. I still have my cheatsheets of how to make environments though.

Joined: Oct 2014
Location: Hogwarts
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2014
Location: Hogwarts
Certainly looks like a project worth pursuing smile

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Glad to hear it Mipsy! Being in different time zones definitely makes communication a little tough sometimes haha.

Still working on the starting town. It's officially playable at this point, but none of the quests have been coded or anything. Trying to get attitude code from main to work, but when I build it, it doesn't recognize parameters in a lot of the databases.

For example: DB_DialogPlayers(_Instance,_Player,1), it says "Auto-define Osiris query "DB_DialogPlayers"(): failed: type of parameter 2 unknown."

Does this mean it doesn't understand what the second parameter, so _Player in this case, means? Or does it not understand two of the parameters? I would think the former, but I'm not sure why it doesn't realize _Player is the player character. Even if I add a line _Player.isPlayer(), it doesn't recognize. Maybe it defines this info in another story goal? There's so much code, I'm not sure what's required for a 100% functional mod and what's only pertinent to the main campaign quests.

Also, it turns out the problem with the triggers was that they had dashes in their names, and the code doesn't recognize dashes in names. Changed them to underscores and everything was fixed in five minutes LOL. I kind of thought it was something really dumb like that, but jeez I feel stupid.

Joined: Oct 2014
B
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
B
Joined: Oct 2014
When you see a script refer to _Player, it's referring to a variable for an object that is named player.

Let me show you a script I wrote to help explain:

INIT:
DB_Cultists(CHARACTER_Cultist1);
DB_Cultists(CHARACTER_Cultist2);
DB_Cultists(CHARACTER_Cultist3);
DB_Cultists(CHARACTER_Cultist4);
DB_Cultists(CHARACTER_Cultist5);
DB_Cultists(CHARACTER_Cultist6);
DB_Cultists(CHARACTER_Cultist7);
//This adds all existing CHARACTER_Cultists to a Database called DB_Cultist.

KB:
IF
DialogStartRequested(_Cultist, _Player) //Uses the _Cultist definition below, and defines any character starting Dialog as _Player/

AND

DB_Cultists(_Cultist) //This defines the character object _Cultist and tells it it can be anything inside the Database


THEN
CharacterDisplayText(_Cultist,"Cultist1"); //Displays text over the newly defined character _Cultist's head


Sorry for the confusing spacing, but as you see: _Player and _Cultist do not exist in the script until they are defined.

Once _Player is defined in this particular IF THEN statement, _Player can be referenced over and over. Same with _Cultist.

In any other IF THEN statement, those objects must be redefined all over again - they do not exist.


Edit:

I see a lot of people use Databases very wrongly. They don't need to be used in every script like the Larian folks do in the tutorials. Is it good practice for making changes later? Maybe. But do you need to add DB_Dialog to every script you write? Nope.

Last edited by Burgee; 02/01/15 10:20 PM.
Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
I'm just copying the whole attitude story goal from main to my mod so I can get characters to respond to getting attacked and the like. But clearly I'm missing something else that allows this to work. So if it works in main, I'm not sure why it doesn't work in my mod. I assume it's because the attitude story goal depends on various other story goals, but I'm not sure which ones. I have the _Start goal and added the _Combat, _Proc, AAA_FirstGoal, Dialogs, and Global goals, and they're spitting out other database errors when I build the story.

It'd be wizard if Larian (or some really smart, dedicated modder) would put out a fully functioning but contentless mod that's independent of main and has all the systems like attitude, alignments, thievery/vandalism reactions and stuff like that in the mod. Then they could have little tutorials that would be like, "add this character to this database to make him react to stealing; set this NPC to the this alignment and he'll react in certain ways when you attack him," etc. That would massively expedite the production of big mods like Of Doves and Demons because we wouldn't have figure all these systems out on our own.

Joined: Oct 2014
B
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
B
Joined: Oct 2014
I really think you'll be better off writing those systems yourself. Post what you need help with and people around here can pitch in ideas.

Joined: Oct 2014
B
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
B
Joined: Oct 2014
Here's a start:

IF
CharacterAttackedByCharacter(_Atackee,_Player)
AND
DB_Citizen(_Atackee)
THEN
CharacterSetTemporaryHostileRelation(_Atackee,_Player);



Any global character added to DB_Citizen will fight back when attacked.

Getting people to recognize theft is going to be more tricky, but I need to work on that anyhow.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5